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TOPIC: Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines?

Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 7 months ago #2304

  • Kikki Cat
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Wondering if there is anyone with knowledge about Ayurvedic medicines interacting with Sofosbuvir and Daclatasvir combination.
I can provide a list of ingredient if it will help. Some are common food herbs like turmeric and burdock and some are Indian herbs like Phyllanthus fraternus (Bhumyamalaki) and Neem.
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 7 months ago #2357

The DAAs work without assistance, and this was how they have been tested.

My advice to patients is to stop taking things like Milk Thistle, tumeric, etc because:
  1. They are not required to achieve the desired results
  2. It is possible they may make treatment results worse
YMMV
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 7 months ago #2372

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Take the Dr's advice kikki cat. leave all this alternative stuff until after treatment. they just might dampening the daa's effect. i have. one type of treatment at a time. kindly
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 7 months ago #2503

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I was into all of that as well. But now I m on treatment, I don t take any of those anymore. There s no point doing that. The drug is powerful, just let it do his work...and afterthat ...party ayurveda right on!...Maybe....I prefer no longer being occupied with it...Lol...Good luck!!
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9796

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James-Freeman-facebook wrote:
The DAAs work without assistance, and this was how they have been tested.

My advice to patients is to stop taking things like Milk Thistle, tumeric, etc because:
  1. They are not required to achieve the desired results
  2. It is possible they may make treatment results worse

I don't use Turmeric as a supplement in capsule of tablet form but do chuck a bit into my curries,(closet Indian) found this on Pubmed regarding Turmeric stopping HCV viral replication due to cell membrane changes it induces, I'm not a molecular biologist so don't understand the full ramifications, but err on the side of sanity and have moderated my use of all herbs and spices whilst on Tx, Doc mentions somewhere best practice is a balanced diet and take a walk in the fresh air every day, that’s what I do and try to keep everything simple, especially what I put into my body.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23903236

(from Pubmed study)CONCLUSIONS:

Turmeric curcumin inhibits HCV entry independently of the genotype and in primary human hepatocytes by affecting membrane fluidity thereby impairing virus binding and fusion


Perhaps it also stops DAAs entering the HCV cells and therefore has a dampening effect on the DAA as they can't do their stuff on the replication enzymes if they cannot enter the HCV cell membrane, so possibly Turmeric may suppress HCV symptoms and as soon as the DAAs are stopped the virus will rear its ugly head again, regardless of the amount of Turmeric you take to suppress it.

I mention this as I have had repeated questions from people unsure about supplements(in particular Cumin and Turmeric), again I agree with others above who suggest giving all the herbs and stuff a miss until after Tx, as Doc says above, A they are not required for treatment, and B they may make results worse (due to possible suppression of DAA action.)

Jim
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9808

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Hi Jimmy, Hmm I also chuck organic turmeric on my food here and there - not capsules , even in a quicksarnie, apparently it needs black pepper with it to benefit.

So what's the general consensus guys? To Tumeric or not to Tumeric?
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9811

Tumeric is a supplement with evidence:

Turmeric curcumin inhibits entry of all hepatitis C virus genotypes into human liver cells.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23903236

A Review on Antibacterial, Antiviral, and Antifungal Activity of Curcumin

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4022204/

The use of alternative medicine in the treatment of hepatitis C (not about tumeric)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12087634

I rather like the inhibition of cellular entry mechanism.

Given it is in food like curry, and the medications are with or without food I can't see a good reason not to take it adding on the disclaimer that nobody has any idea if it will help DAA SVR (yet).

I can see a great April Fools late breaker abstract submission for EASL entitled:

TITLE: The correlation between consumption of curry and SVR rates in populations on the Indian sub-continent taking generic DAAs

ABSTRACT: It has long been known that the polyphenolic compound curcumin, present in Curcuma longa L. (Zingiberaceae family) has a range of antibacterial, antifungal and antiviral activities. In their seminal paper "Turmeric curcumin inhibits entry of all hepatitis C virus genotypes into human liver cells." Anggakusuma et al elucidated that the mechanism of action revolves around curcumin's ability to inhibit HCV entry independently of the genotype and into hepatocytes by affecting membrane fluidity thereby impairing virus binding and fusion.

In a rare display of bipartisan co-operation Gilead Science and Bristol Myers Squibb provided 40,000 free patient doses of medication to ensure that the trial results had a decent degree of statistical validity. Participants were allocated into 4 test groups: the tri-curry group assigned to eat curry at every meal, the bi-curry group assigned to eat curry at only lunch and dinner, the mono-curry group assigned to eat curry only at lunch. Attempts to recruit participants for a no-curry test group failed, so this medication was donated to the VA.

RESULTS: SVR rates in the tri-curry group were 99 % +/-1%, in the bi-curry group 98% +/- 1% and in the mono-curry group 97% +/- 1%

CONCLUSION: The SVR rates were higher than expected from previous trials, particularly in the hard to treat GT3 population. We conclude that three curries a day keeps HCV at bay and recommend extending the trial to all 185,000,000 patients with HCV.
YMMV
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9812

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CONCLUSION: The SVR rates were higher than expected from previous trials, particularly in the hard to treat GT3 population. We conclude that three curries a day keeps HCV at bay and recommend extending the trial to all 185,000,000 patients with HCV.

:lol: :+1:
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9814

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So the curry is on eh, (shakes head from side to side) all is good, curry at my place, any day is good :)
All 185,000,000 of you, please bring a plate :)
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9816

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heh - what's the address? I'm soo bored with cooking - sounds fab!
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9819

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To Turmeric or not to Turmeric...
well I will stop taking it when I am on tx but the rest of the time, before and after, its two tablespoons of the paste made with Olive and Coconut Oil and fresh ground black pepper every day. I think its very powerful and awesome stuff. My viral load dropped by more than half in the last few years and I'd say its almost certainly because of the Turmeric. Its also the only thing that stops the infernal itch.
I've also been taking Cayenne lately and it makes a huge difference to my energy levels.
It's a toxic stressful world, and though getting rid of this virus will make it much easier to handle there will still always be a place for tonics and herbs.
F49HepC25ysGT1a
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Harvoni 12 wks
Brisbane, Australia
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by flyingfox66.
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9822

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Hey FF - Yes, a pinch of Cayenne is a great liver tonic I have read. Your mini recipe is also good, Thanks
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9824

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I've been taking capsules of the Cayenne lately (home made). You have to be very careful to take them on a full stomach, but the benefits are amazing...wonderful for the circulation.

I'll expand a little on the Turmeric paste recipe in case anyone finds it useful.
1. Source quality Turmeric with a known curcurmin ratio...I use Allepey, and it's the best I've found.
2. I cup Turmeric powder in enough water to make a paste over a low heat, just to get it all smooth and dissolved.
3. Take off heat and add a half a cup of oil (olive and coconut are best), three teaspoons fresh ground black pepper, and whizz to make it mix.

That makes quite a peppery paste, and you can probably get away with using less, though they say the piperine in the pepper increases the benefits of Turmeric 2000 percent! It has to be freshly ground though. I also add ground fennel.

Start with half a teaspoon twice a day and work up. Effects on different people are variable and some find it very purging indeed.
F49HepC25ysGT1a
"mild"
Harvoni 12 wks
Brisbane, Australia
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by flyingfox66.
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9826

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flyingfox66 wrote:
I've been taking capsules of the Cayenne lately (home made). You have to be very careful to take them on a full stomach, but the benefits are amazing...wonderful for the circulation.

I'll expand a little on the Turmeric paste recipe in case anyone finds it useful.
1. Source quality Turmeric with a known curcurmin ratio...I use Allepey, and it's the best I've found.
2. I cup Turmeric powder in enough water to make a paste over a low heat, just to get it all smooth and dissolved.
3. Take off heat and add a half a cup of oil (olive and coconut are best), three teaspoons fresh ground black pepper, and whizz to make it mix.

That makes quite a peppery paste, and you can probably get away with using less, though they say the piperine in the pepper increases the benefits of Turmeric 2000 percent! It has to be freshly ground though. I also add ground fennel.

Start with half a teaspoon twice a day and work up. Effects on different people are variable and some find it very purging indeed.

I researched this paste after you mentioned it. The curcumin isn't abosorbed very well but the fat from the oil helps alot. There is not enough piperine in even very large amount of pepper. You should get bioperine supplments and add that. There very cheap.
There is pretty much insufficent evidence of it working for much but a ani-inflammation and osteoarthritis . BUT alot of anecdotal.
People with hep c for a long time usually have a gall bladder that is bigger then it shoul be or pain there. Turmeric can make gallbladder problems worse. but usually only if there is gallstones or a obstruction. Diabeteics be careful to. Also people with clotting issues like hep c people can have. Research this before taking.
I'm glad you posted this paste recipe and want to try it although I hate the taste curry ((coriander, turmeric, cumin, fenugreek, and chili peppers) so I might have to hold my breath for this.
Genotype 1A
ALT 473
AST 226
Virus Load 3,119,030
Results as of May-2016
5 week viral load/undetected as of 12/02/2016
Liver Biopsy Results from Feb 2013
Portal/Periportal chronic inflammation and mild interface hepatitis (Grade 2)
Focal Lobular chronic inflammation (Grade 1)
Portal/Periportal fibrosis (stage 1-2 trichrome and reticulin stains utilized)
Negative Iron stains.
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Interactions with Ayurvedic medicines? 1 year 4 months ago #9827

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If you have problems with gall stones or kidney stones, I recommend researching Chanca Piedra. This herb has done me so much good! It has very interesting effects of actually relaxing the organs, to allow blockages to be removed.
I do a lot of research before I take things but in the end my criteria is...does it work for me? And the only way you can find that out is to experiment. I must admit there have been a few failed experiments along the way, but on the whole I think I've saved myself quite a bit of suffering.
I'll check out the piperine supplement so thanks for that. Cayenne seemingly potentiates anything you add it to as well.
F49HepC25ysGT1a
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