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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19959

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Hi Fitz,

an interesting information, which is new to me.
However, I just read the article from the first link you posted and I became .... cautious with regard to the remark that this substance may cross the blood-brain barrier ....

As you are approaching EOT, it might be that your level of anxiety increases.....It happened to others too :), so just think it is normal to feel like this and enjoy the time till week 12 after EOT doing something else, maybe not related to HCV ;-).
Have a look also here on Greg's latest blog, perhaps it helps :) hepatitisctreatment.homestead.com/generic-harvoni-cost.html (scroll down a little bit until you find the post "The Sad Reality of Relapse"

Cheers,
RHF
In fiecare an HCV ucide peste 500000 oameni.Medicamentele generice pentru hepatita C functioneaza. Nu deveni statistica! Cauta pe Google “medicamente generice pentru hepatita C”.
HCV kills more than 500000 people every year. HCV generic drugs work. Don't become a statistic.
By sharing this Youtube video you might save someone’s life!
My TX: HEPCVIR-L[generic Harvoni]-India
SVR52 achieved
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19962

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I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this medication out of hand RHF. To do so, I believe, would be a mistake.

Obviously, chlorcyclizine is an over the counter antihistamine used routinely for hay fever, and seasonal allergies, and has been used safely for decades for this purpose. So, I'm not really that concerned about its already established safety record.

The question I find myself asking is "If this medication is as cheap, safe, and effective (against HCV) as the initial research indicates, why wouldn't we look at adding it to the existing arsenal for use in conjunction with DAAs?"

I yield the floor.
Failed Interferon 96', G1a, VL = 9 - 5.5 Million, F3/A3, AST 111, ALT 190, Generic DAA treatment Sof/Led (Mylan - India MYHEP LVIR) - 8 June, 2016
2 Week Results 20 June, 2016 AST 19, ALT 32
4 Week Results 06 July, 2016 AST 22, ALT 30, VL = 35
6 Week Results 20, July 2016 VL only = HCV RNA Detected, Non-Quantifiable <15
8 Week Results 04 August 2016, Labs, LFTs Normal, VL = UND
12 Week Results 31 August, 2016 LFTs Normal, VL = UND
EOT + 4 Weeks, LFTs Normal, VL = UND, "SVR4"
SVR12, 21 Nov 2016. CURED!!!
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Last edit: by fitz.

Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19963

Hey fitz!
I saw this too a while back and I agree it is VERY intriguing. I was hoping to hear more from the medical community as time and testing progressed. Like you, I'm curious to know what, if anything, others might have heard, or have to say regarding it.
RHF, I appreciate your post referencing Gregs latest blog and "The Sad Reality of Relapse." I must say though, that the result you intended may have worked in the opposite direction for me :lol:
Now I am even more interested in the question posed here by fitz. :woohoo:
Thanks to you both,

Matt
GT1a; Got it some time in the 70's; Diagnosed @1976
Tx naive
METAVIR: A2-F2
SOT May 18, 2016: CMP: AST 162 ALT 241 VL 13000000
3 weeks after SOT: AST 27 ALT 31 VL 138
Reached EOT Aug. 10, 2016 / Received svr4 results Sept. 20, 2016: AST 22 ALT 24
Hep C RNA "NOT DETECTED"
AS OF 3/20/2017 ,Hep C RNA PCR "NOT DETECTED" THAT'S SVR24!
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19969

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Failed Interferon 96', G1a, VL = 9 - 5.5 Million, F3/A3, AST 111, ALT 190, Generic DAA treatment Sof/Led (Mylan - India MYHEP LVIR) - 8 June, 2016
2 Week Results 20 June, 2016 AST 19, ALT 32
4 Week Results 06 July, 2016 AST 22, ALT 30, VL = 35
6 Week Results 20, July 2016 VL only = HCV RNA Detected, Non-Quantifiable <15
8 Week Results 04 August 2016, Labs, LFTs Normal, VL = UND
12 Week Results 31 August, 2016 LFTs Normal, VL = UND
EOT + 4 Weeks, LFTs Normal, VL = UND, "SVR4"
SVR12, 21 Nov 2016. CURED!!!
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Last edit: by fitz.

Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19970

Hi Fitz, I remember something about this. I think Dr F knows about it, Maybe he'll come along with his opinion. Interesting.
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19975

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I suspect the blood/brain barrier comment mostly means that it carries a little sticker that says "This medicine may cause drowsiness and increase the effects of alcohol. If affected do not drive a motor vehicle or operate machinery".

Certainly interesting with its potential to add a different mechanism to the treatment process though at this early stage I would advise readers not to run down to their pharmacy and start self medicating* without discussion with a medical professional.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25855495

Edit: *and be aware that the therapeutic dosage may differ from what is appropriate for use as an antihistamine.
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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Last edit: by Gaj.

Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19980

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Thanks for your excellent input, Gaj. :+1: I did a little research, and the dose to keep a runny nose at bay is one tablet every 8 hours. So for that purpose 30 tablets is a 10 day supply.

The stuff hasn't had any kind of patent protection for years, so it is little wonder Big Pharma doesn't seem to be interested in it. One of the things that is especially intriguing to me is that (according to the published research) Chorcyclizine appears to keep HCV from entering cells to replicate in the first place. Also that the studies seem to suggest that it does not interfere with the mechanisms used by DAAs to destroy the virus, and may actually be used in conjunction with DAAs to assist in shutting down HCV's ability to replicate.

Exciting stuff if it actually turns out to be as effective as the studies suggest!
Failed Interferon 96', G1a, VL = 9 - 5.5 Million, F3/A3, AST 111, ALT 190, Generic DAA treatment Sof/Led (Mylan - India MYHEP LVIR) - 8 June, 2016
2 Week Results 20 June, 2016 AST 19, ALT 32
4 Week Results 06 July, 2016 AST 22, ALT 30, VL = 35
6 Week Results 20, July 2016 VL only = HCV RNA Detected, Non-Quantifiable <15
8 Week Results 04 August 2016, Labs, LFTs Normal, VL = UND
12 Week Results 31 August, 2016 LFTs Normal, VL = UND
EOT + 4 Weeks, LFTs Normal, VL = UND, "SVR4"
SVR12, 21 Nov 2016. CURED!!!
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19984

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Hi all, great discussion! I recall having a discussion with Dr Freeman about chlorcyclizine last year and something G3s in particular could consider. An old drug but very effective on replication etc. The other interesting one is statins in assisting with clearance rates etc. Who knows maybe the final piece of the puzzle. Em
Geno 1b F2/3 snce early 80s. Treated in 2008_9 for 63 weeks on INF/Riba. Commence Sof/Dac on 6 October 2015 and completed 18 weeks of tx. UND at 4-6 weeks, UND at EOT, SVR 2, SVR 6 and SVR 12 on 6 May 2016.
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19985

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Wow Fitz what a great research! Thank you. I am now totally intrigued and curious about your find. It might help falling and staying asleep too as an extra bonus. :whistle: Btw I heard that Vitamin B12 is good to improve SVR chances too. Will check the links you posted. :+1:
Blood transfusion in 1992 - Diagnosed in 2007
Tx naive -G1b - F1
VL 2.270.000
ALT 40
Start tx June 4th/2016 with DAAs - Sof/Led from India
Bloods on two weeks of tx (June 18th)
AST 17 - ALT 10 - GGT 19
Virus UND
Bloods on six weeks of tx (July 16th)
AST 17 - ALT 8 - GGT 12
Virus UND
EOT on August 8th (did 9 weeks and 3 days)

SVR 4 Virus UND (September 7th)
AST 13 - ALT 5

SVR 14 Virus UND (November 12th)
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19987

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Just a quick one about vitamin B12
If you are vegan, you need to find a way to supplement, as I believe B12 is only available in animal products.
I'd be curious to know how people who are vegan for ethical reasons get their B12 - not being cynical or inflammatory, just curious
Genotype 1a
Diagnosed in 2004, had HCV for all my adult life. Until 2016!!!!
Harvoni treatment, started 19 March 2016
4 week results Bilirubin 12 down from 14 pre treatment,
Gamma 25 down from 52, ALT 19 down from 63, AST 19 down from 47,
VL <15 down from a lazy 6 million or so

EOT Results
Bilirubin 10, GGT 18, ALT 19, AST 21, VL UND

12 Weeks post EOT
Bilirubin 11, GGT 16, ALT 22, AST 20, VL UND
Cured baby
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19988

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Hi all, great discussion! I recall having a discussion with Dr Freeman about chlorcyclizine last year and something G3s in particular could consider. An old drug but very effective on replication etc. The other interesting one is statins in assisting with clearance rates etc. Who knows maybe the final piece of the puzzle. Em
Geno 1b F2/3 snce early 80s. Treated in 2008_9 for 63 weeks on INF/Riba. Commence Sof/Dac on 6 October 2015 and completed 18 weeks of tx. UND at 4-6 weeks, UND at EOT, SVR 2, SVR 6 and SVR 12 on 6 May 2016.
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19989

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Hi Meg,

Here is a link to the Supplements section of the forum. It includes threads about B12 and Vitamin D, both of which have evidence to support their use if you are deficient. Plus one about B12 availability per beaches' comment. :)

fixhepc.com/forum/supplements.html
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19990

Found this on vitamin B12 sources.
Vegetarians
Strict vegetarians and vegans are at greater risk than lacto-ovo vegetarians and nonvegetarians of developing vitamin B12 deficiency because natural food sources of vitamin B12 are limited to animal foods [5]. Fortified breakfast cereals are one of the few sources of vitamin B12 from plants and can be used as a dietary source of vitamin B12 for strict vegetarians and vegans.
Dietary Supplement Fact Sheet. ods.od.nih.gov/
Eat lots of fortified breakfast cereal :woohoo:

MK
GT1a; Got it some time in the 70's; Diagnosed @1976
Tx naive
METAVIR: A2-F2
SOT May 18, 2016: CMP: AST 162 ALT 241 VL 13000000
3 weeks after SOT: AST 27 ALT 31 VL 138
Reached EOT Aug. 10, 2016 / Received svr4 results Sept. 20, 2016: AST 22 ALT 24
Hep C RNA "NOT DETECTED"
AS OF 3/20/2017 ,Hep C RNA PCR "NOT DETECTED" THAT'S SVR24!
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Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19992

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Hi Everybody,

couple of feedbacks regarding my previous post:

@Fitz & Matt: I posted the link about Greg's post in order to highlight the aspect about the anxiety felt by patients when they reach EOT and the waiting time of 12 weeks. It provided also couple of arguments about possible causes of relapse. My intention (and probably I should have said this from the beginning) was to touch the idea of having trust in the DAAs despite the anxiety during the waiting times.

My understanding regarding the mechanism of action was that Chlorcyclizine might block HCV in entering the liver cells. So it is a different mechanism than the DAAs which affects the replication of HCV. On one side, the idea of using it sounds like an additional protection, after the DAAs treatment is finished. On the other side, I have in mind that outside the body, in dried blood, HCV may survive upto 6 weeks, while inside the body there is a more "friendly environment" for the HCV, therefore if after the DAAs treatment there will still be some RAVs hidden somewhere in the body, the Chlorcyclizine might need to be used for more weeks.
Who knows, maybe DAAs + Chlorcyclizine might be something like the case of getting rid of the bugs: you put poison (aka you take the DAAs) and the bugs getting in contact with it will die, but some bugs will remain in a crack in wall and might survive, so if you block that crack, the bugs will finally die from starvation :D. It would be a nice dream. Yet dreams are dreams, reality is reality and sometimes dreams do become reality ;-), so it is hard (at least for me at this moment) to give solid opinions.

Anyway, please consider my "message of caution" not as a kind of "do not do it", rather as a kind of "research more, ask more, get a professional view and if it turns to be (or might be) safe for you, give it a try".

Cheers,
RHF
In fiecare an HCV ucide peste 500000 oameni.Medicamentele generice pentru hepatita C functioneaza. Nu deveni statistica! Cauta pe Google “medicamente generice pentru hepatita C”.
HCV kills more than 500000 people every year. HCV generic drugs work. Don't become a statistic.
By sharing this Youtube video you might save someone’s life!
My TX: HEPCVIR-L[generic Harvoni]-India
SVR52 achieved
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Last edit: by rohcvfighter. Reason: typing error corrected

Chlorcyclizine 6 years 2 months ago #19997

Been a vegetarian, not a vegan, for 40 years.....fish 2/3 times a week. Never have taken any
supplements or vitamins until dx with HCV in 2007. Started to take milk thistle. Ran
into chlorcyclizine a few years later. Can't tell if they helped, but maybe they
impeded/retarded the virus.

Bottom line is.... a well balanced diet helps the body regardless what ails it. Didn't need
B12 with a balanced diet.

IMO, people should change their dietary lifestyle regardless if they have HCV or not.
H2O, sleep, little or no sugar, little or no alcohol, etc should be a life long endeavor....
not just when you are on HCV meds.
contracted Gen 1a in the 70's, dx in 2007...ast 27 to 35...alt 43 to 96...vl 1.2 mil to 8.6 mil.
biopsy F-2 (2012)..pre tx results 1/23/16 ast 32, alt 46, vl 3.1 mil
tx started 2/11/16.... lab results 2/24/16 ast 18, alt 18, vl <15 IU/ml
28 days later.............lab results 3/9/16 ast 21, alt 21, vl UND
56 days later.............lab results 4/6/16 ast 20, alt 22, vl UND
139 days later...........lab results 6/29/16 ast 28, alt 30, vl UND...EOT
SVR24
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