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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11783

A.L. wrote:

Price wrote: You can lower your viral load before starting your next treatment by eliminating carbohydrates from your diet. Hep C is sugar dependent so taking its sugar source lowers viral load (Carbs turn into sugar).

This study proves it....


Your advice is based on a profoundly ignorant understanding of the paper you quote. You have no idea of what you are saying and you are being reckless publishing such recommendations.

The paper you quote proves nothing of what you claim.


Just stop it A.L. Subjectively, I find your language on this forum unacceptable. Objectively, it is completely unnecessary.

In order to challenge someone's interpretation of the research, you do not have to adopt such a confrontational approach. You continually project emotions onto people. I've been subjected to your personal attacks and had you subscribe emotional responses to me on several occasions that simply were not the case. And as I suffer from PTSD I really don't appreciate it. But I recognise it for what it is.

Bullying.

Well, sorry but I'm not copping your shit. Here's a tutorial on how to communicate on the internets. Your response could have gone something like this.

"Thanks for your contribution Price but I have to disagree with your interpretation for reasons x, y and z."

Come on, it's not that fucking hard. I don't post on this forum as much anymore partly because of you.

If I'm feeling generous I might.....and I do mean might....contribute what I can to your request for information about how long to get over the FX of Tx.

But at the moment, I don't feel so inclined.
Huon Valley, Tasmania
Hep C+ since 1980s
Genotype 1b
F3/4
VL 480,000
Started Indian Sof and Riba, BMS Dac (comp access) 28 August 2015
UND at 4 weeks
Finished treatment 19 November 2015
12 February 2016 UND SVR12
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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11799

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Hi john,

Welcome on board! Thanks for sharing........

I'm no expert, I think the suggestion you take Sob/Dac is whats going to do the trick, Ill be interested
in hearing back from you once you've spoke to James.

There are so many treatments coming online I am confident you'll get there.
Sob/Dac from Oct 29 2015
Geno 1b
Fiberscan 9.9 Pre treatment
Fiberscan 7.4 week 10
VL 1.3 million pre treatment
Week 2.5 VL 96
Week 5.5 VL 17
Week 10 VL UD
SVR 3 UD
SVR 16 UD
Cured:
All liver functions in normal ranges.
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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11853

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A.L....

My research partner said it best.

"Hepatitis C virus replication is glucose dependent"

hopefulgeranium.blogspot.com/2013/10/hep...-replication-is.html

So I stand by what I said. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

P

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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11855

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Chester,

Thank you for the help. I bet you he can't prove me wrong.

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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11856

My experience says you are right. Though I have to admit I still eat carbs, but much less than I used to and I feel much better for it. Plus my viral load has dropped by half in the last two years.
I know for a fact that the days I fall off the carb wagon heavily are sure to be followed by digestive system failures and related pains.
F49HepC25ysGT1a
"mild"
Harvoni 12 wks
Brisbane, Australia
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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11962

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Chester wrote:

A.L. wrote:

Price wrote: You can lower your viral load before starting your next treatment by eliminating carbohydrates from your diet. Hep C is sugar dependent so taking its sugar source lowers viral load (Carbs turn into sugar).

This study proves it....


Your advice is based on a profoundly ignorant understanding of the paper you quote. You have no idea of what you are saying and you are being reckless publishing such recommendations.

The paper you quote proves nothing of what you claim.


Just stop it A.L. Subjectively, I find your language on this forum unacceptable. Objectively, it is completely unnecessary.

In order to challenge someone's interpretation of the research, you do not have to adopt such a confrontational approach. You continually project emotions onto people. I've been subjected to your personal attacks and had you subscribe emotional responses to me on several occasions that simply were not the case. And as I suffer from PTSD I really don't appreciate it. But I recognise it for what it is.

Bullying.


My language is far more acceptable than that used against me in the past when I have commented. As far as your accusation of me being a bully, that is more a demonstration of victim culture that is one of the uglier aspects of modern western countries. If you don't like direct discourse, stay out of them, but whatever you do, please don't complain because you don't like direct expression of opinion. And to use your words, "Don't project emotions onto people."

I'm not going to thank an ignoramus who concludes from a scientific paper, and then goes on to advise, "You can lower your viral load before starting your next treatment by eliminating carbohydrates from your diet." He says "eliminating carbohydrates", which is straight up absurd. And then goes on to say "This study proves it..." Again, utter ignorance. In this field, there are very few single papers which prove anything, hence the enormous amount of repetition and variation of trials and experiments. His utterance, at the very least, misrepresents the scientific process and misleads people into making incorrect deductions from single studies. There is no room for misplaced politeness here, just as we don't warn someone walking into traffic, "Excuse me, you are about to be hit by a bus."


Well, sorry but I'm not copping your shit. Here's a tutorial on how to communicate on the internets. Your response could have gone something like this.

"Thanks for your contribution Price but I have to disagree with your interpretation for reasons x, y and z."

Come on, it's not that fucking hard. I don't post on this forum as much anymore partly because of you.


Are you serious? This is an open debate. When was the last time someone walked out of parliament because they didn't like the tone someone else was using? It reeks either of inexperience in debate, or of the new trend to shut down debate because one disagrees withanother's opinion.


If I'm feeling generous I might.....and I do mean might....contribute what I can to your request for information about how long to get over the FX of Tx.

But at the moment, I don't feel so inclined.


What you have just expressed can be described as passive aggression, threatening to withhold a favour unless I comply. For me, such a threat is no problem, more an illustration of a character trait, but I don't want to shut you down because of it, although it does come as a surprise that someone claiming to have PTSD should be so aggressive.

I'm direct, informative, don't swear, and argue well within the bounds of decency. You can't ask for a better interlocutor.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.

Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.

YEAR..... ALT..... AST..... GGT... FERRITIN........................................
2009....... 210..... 215..... 953..... 1400........... (Bad health, stupidity)
2015....... 60....... 45....... 150..... 360............. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016....... 20....... 24....... 25....... 156............. (SVR 12)

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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11963

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Price wrote: A.L....

My research partner said it best.

"Hepatitis C virus replication is glucose dependent"

hopefulgeranium.blogspot.com/2013/10/hep...-replication-is.html

So I stand by what I said. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

P


Price, you quote a pager from a blogger whose paper would normally go into the "crazy drawer" in any scientific department. This is the place that the work of unqualified commentators goes when it eventually gets forwarded to a university. If you've ever had the chance to pick through such repositories, it is a sad experience to see how much effort people have put into misunderstanding science in the belief that they were onto something new and special. Unfortunately (or fortunately) these days we have the internet for such people to establish their islands of delusion. Of course, sometimes outliers and refuseniks have something valuable to offer, such as the people behind this project, which is terrific, but in general, they don't.

Your commentator is guilty of cherry-picking and profound confusion. His highlighted quote upon which he bases his conclusion, "Reducing the glucose concentration in the cell culture medium from 4.5 to 1.0 g/L resulted in suppression of HCV replication" ignores the fact that normal fasting blood glucose is around 1g/L. So his suggestion to "eliminate carbohydrates" rests on the assumption that we reduce blood glucose from five times normal back to normal. If you have fasting glucose of 2g/L, your doctor will test you for diabetes. Your blogger even quotes:

1 g/L glucose is 5.5mM with the normal physiological range for fasting BG being 4-7 mM. ("The fasting value is within the range of 4-7 mM, with minimum individual variance from day to day, despite varying life conditions with food and exercise.")


He's talking about a single result in a specific in-vitro experiment using high sugar levels. He continues his explanation with what could only be politely called "word salad" that contains glimpses of facts in paragraphs of copy-and-paste and incoherent argument. He then extrapolates it outside the bounds of reason to give potentially dangerous advice to vulnerable readers. Hence the directness of my reply.

You can lower your viral load before starting your next treatment by eliminating carbohydrates from your diet. Hep C is sugar dependent so taking its sugar source lowers viral load (Carbs turn into sugar).

This study proves it....


If you can't see a logical problem in his reasoning and actions, then we have an awkward situation here.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.

Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.

YEAR..... ALT..... AST..... GGT... FERRITIN........................................
2009....... 210..... 215..... 953..... 1400........... (Bad health, stupidity)
2015....... 60....... 45....... 150..... 360............. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016....... 20....... 24....... 25....... 156............. (SVR 12)

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Last edit: by A.L..

Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11964

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flyingfox66 wrote: My experience says you are right. Though I have to admit I still eat carbs, but much less than I used to and I feel much better for it. Plus my viral load has dropped by half in the last two years.


That is one piece of subjective anecdotal evidence. It doesn't constitute a scientific demonstration of any kind. I have exactly the opposite experience – also useless evidence, so I don't use it in argument. Further, viral load changes all of the time and dropping by half in two years means approximately zero according to our current understanding.

I know for a fact that the days I fall off the carb wagon heavily are sure to be followed by digestive system failures and related pains.


That is nothing magic. It's called "eating too much" and has no relation to the question we are arguing.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.

Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.

YEAR..... ALT..... AST..... GGT... FERRITIN........................................
2009....... 210..... 215..... 953..... 1400........... (Bad health, stupidity)
2015....... 60....... 45....... 150..... 360............. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016....... 20....... 24....... 25....... 156............. (SVR 12)

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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11975

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Hi A.L.,

Something worth keeping in mind when interacting here is that that this is not a "scientific department", "parliament" or even a winner takes all debating club (and even in those fields, measurement against other's behaviour is rarely viewed as an appropriate excuse to reciprocate).

May I suggest that you will find others more receptive to your views if you take a similar approach to imparting information as you do when requesting it? Your recent enquiry about other's EOT DAA experiences being a good example. You appear to have a keen mind and quick grasp of concepts so I feel sure you could add valuable knowledge and insight to this site by such an approach.

Gaj
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 6 years 9 months ago #11976

I feel sure you could add valuable knowledge and insight to this site by such an approach.


I have no problem with A.L.s approach. Whether I agree with him or not, I'm glad he's around and providing input which shows an independence of thinking.

dt

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Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 5 years 6 months ago #24342

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Thanks Mike - followed you here actually .....

mgalbrai wrote: Hi, Did I see your post on HepMag? Anyhow, you have found the answer to your recent setback. Sick people who come here don't leave that way.
Simple as that.
Mike


Reading your posts on the other forum about your success with generic DAA medicines brought me here. You my friend are a true trailblazer.

As you can see from my profile - your above statement is true.

Thank you for all that you have done to help others like myself find the resources here at FixHepC

J

PS: Would like to add my thanks to Greg Jefferys - I was reading his excellent work online before starting DAA therapy. Another inspirational fellow to be sure.
GT 1a (~1968)
Diagnosed Non A/B ’85 – HCV ‘89
Rebetron INF/RBV 17 months 2000 – Failure
Infergen INF/RBV 11 months 2002 – Failure
Viekira Pak + RBV 12 weeks 2015 – Failure
VL Und at +3 weeks > EOT – EOT+12 weeks 2,240k
Resistance Tests – NS5a Q30R
SMV/DCV/SOF + RBV 24 weeks 2016
VL Det <15 +2 and +4 weeks – Und +8 weeks > EOT
SVR4, SVR12 and SVR24 Undetected
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Last edit: by J. Eugene.

Viekira RBV Failure - Retreatment 5 years 6 months ago #24372

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3DT - 3 Drug Therapy is the standard of care for another unstable RNA virus, namely HIV

Targeting all of NS3/4A, NS5A and NS5B puts the laws of probability on your side.

If the chances of getting a mutation are 1:1000 (it's more like 1:10,000) but go with me.

Then the chances of getting another on the same strand of RNA are 1:1,000,000 (1000*1000)

And the chances of getting a third are 1:1,000,000,000

Those odds look pretty dang good.

For retreatment if you can get 3 pretty good agents that target our 3 targets, your chances are really good of getting SVR.
YMMV
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