TOPIC:

Not sure if this is precisely the right thread, but....

Has anyone looked at the alibaba web site recently? First there was Mesochem.... Since then, the number of Chinese manufacturers offering Sofosbuvir in Kg quantities has just exploded!

www.alibaba.com/showroom/sofosbuvir.html

See also:

www.alibaba.com/showroom/daclatasvir.html
www.alibaba.com/showroom/ledipasvir.html

Shoot, if I wasn't already cured, I'd be putting the stuff on my cornflakes! Anyway, this all looks like food for thought!

Here's to free trade and free markets!

Hi Vororo,

I've moved this post to the Media and News area for now. It is certainly news but I'm a little worried that some new members and guests could misinterpret the links as 'reliable' generics if left where it was.

Gaj

Hi Gaj,

You're right. It's just "News", and not a recommended source for ordinary folk in search of 12 or 24 weeks of treatment

Cheers,

As you say, free trade and markets will drive this. Particularly with something like these new DAAs for which there is massive demand and a very profitable manufacture to sale ratio.

The questions are;

- Can the manufacturer accurately recreate an analogue of the original chemical?
- Can they do so for all production batches?
- How robust is their supply chain?

In the case of Mesochem that you mention, answers to all of the above have been proven over the last 12 months or so. They are a tried and tested supplier.

It appears there is now some more competition which is good for HCV sufferers worldwide as long as it doesn't drive market prices down to the stage where quality of product and integrity of supply are compromised.

Vororo wrote:
Shoot, if I wasn't already cured, I'd be putting the stuff on my cornflakes!

You made me spill my coffee

Crazy prices and most would be as good as. Shit cheaper for the average Aussie to buy this rather than the free stuff which has a co-payment of approximately $200. Thats without a health care card of course. Em

Gaj wrote: The questions are;

- Can the manufacturer accurately recreate an analogue of the original chemical?
- Can they do so for all production batches?
- How robust is their supply chain?

In the case of Mesochem that you mention, answers to all of the above have been proven over the last 12 months or so. They are a tried and tested supplier.

It appears there is now some more competition which is good for HCV sufferers worldwide as long as it doesn't drive market prices down to the stage where quality of product and integrity of supply are compromised.

Good questions, Gaj. No doubt the majority of those manufacturers are aiming at the Chinese pharmaceuticals market. In China, there are some 30 million people with Hep-C:

www.hepcoalition.org/IMG/pdf/countries_excluded_gilead_s_vl.pdf

I have no reason to believe that Chinese chemists are any less skilled than there western counter-parts, and it is very hard to believe that the Chinese government will allow sub-standard products to be sold in their pharmacies.

So unless there is evidence to the contrary, I would suppose that the chinese products are the genuine article (minus the Gilead brand name, of course).

[Why is it that people in the west have the idea that china produces fake products? Is this just more subtle brain-washing from Big Pharma?]

Anyway, if anyone (or should I say any Buyer's Club?) is considering these sources, they should naturally get the stuff properly tested like Dr James did with the Mesochem product.

So unless there is evidence to the contrary, I would suppose that the chinese products are the genuine article (minus the Gilead brand name, of course).

I would suggest that is a big supposition to be making, lack of evidence to the contrary does not prove the fact.

[Why is it that people in the west have the idea that china produces fake products? Is this just more subtle brain-washing from Big Pharma?]

I can't see where that fits in relation to my comments. I didn't make any statements or allusions to fake products. I did note that having too many competitors can sometimes have detrimental impacts. That is applicable in any manufacturing field, in any country, under any economic system.

Hi Gaj,

My statement about a general perception that chinese products might be fake wasn't aimed at anything you said (that's why I put it in brackets). I remember when I was growing up, anything with a "Made in China" label was thought to be cheap and inferior. So that was a side thought aimed at myself just as much as anyone else.

Still, it does seem to me that a lot of people come on this forum with big doubts about whether generics are "the real deal" or whether they work as well as the branded product...

So the point I was trying to make was that it seems fair to suppose that the people who work in those Chinese companies are trained and experienced chemists. And most probably they take pride in their skills, just like any other professional. Why would they be making anything other than the real deal?

Me, I have a degree in chemistry and I spent many hours in the lab mixing reagents and purifying the product... I hated it. But the idea that a professional chemist can make 99.9% pure product once he knows the target formula doesn't surprise me at all. And once an NMR spectrum is available for a reference molecule, its pretty easy for a professional chemist to verify that he has made the real deal. So yeah, I stand by my original statement - until there is evidence to the contrary, its reasonable to suppose that the chinese products are the genuine article.

Cheers,

When I purchsed my APIs 6 months ago, I initiated the process on Alibaba. I got 5 responses from 5 different suppliers back then. They quoted quantities ranging from 1/2 g to kg. I responded only to Mesochem, as that was what I wanted. Their price was not the best, but some suppliers only sold in large amounts.
I don't think multiple suppliers from China is a "just happened" thing.
I never checked into the others because I had a good idea Mesochem was the real deal. I only found out for certain 4 weeks into tx.
M

Vororo wrote: Hi Gaj,

My statement about a general perception that chinese products might be fake wasn't aimed at anything you said (that's why I put it in brackets). I remember when I was growing up, anything with a "Made in China" label was thought to be cheap and inferior. So that was a side thought aimed at myself just as much as anyone else.

I get where you are coming from now.....and Japan used to make those tiny transistor radios and miniature cameras that were clever but just toys huh?

Still, it does seem to me that a lot of people come on this forum with big doubts about whether generics are "the real deal" or whether they work as well as the branded product....

I think that also applies to most other generic medications. When pharmacists offer a choice, many people choose the more expensive brand name item because "the one the doctor prescribed must be better".

So the point I was trying to make was that it seems fair to suppose that the people who work in those Chinese companies are trained and experienced chemists. And most probably they take pride in their skills, just like any other professional. Why would they be making anything other than the real deal?

Yes, hands up anyone who owns an iDevice or any one of thousands of 'quality' consumer items which are manufactured there to take advantage of both comparative costs and a skilled and well trained labour force.

Me, I have a degree in chemistry and I spent many hours in the lab mixing reagents and purifying the product... I hated it. But the idea that a professional chemist can make 99.9% pure product once he knows the target formula doesn't surprise me at all. And once an NMR spectrum is available for a reference molecule, its pretty easy for a professional chemist to verify that he has made the real deal. So yeah, I stand by my original statement - until there is evidence to the contrary, its reasonable to suppose that the chinese products are the genuine article.

I will grant you that in most cases. My point being that with such a high demand for these medications and the difficulties in getting a clear view across the border of 'who is who' in the Chinese arena, it is advisable to exercise caution until verification can occur. In much the same way as 3,6-diacetyl morphine is largely harmless to the human body when correctly manufactured, you probably don't want some knocked up by someone with a fail in first year chemistry in their back shed


Cheers,

I will say this for Mesochem: I asked Rachel if she sold simeprevir. She said "Yes, but not sodium simeprevir."
That is meaningful. Simeprevir can't be absorbed wirhout the sodium. How many companies, Chinese or otherwise, would bother to miss a sale on such a trivial (haha) issue? Maybe all, I don't know.
Can't go wrong with Rachel & Mesochem.
M

The VA in USA should buy a 50 KG vat of Sofosbuvir and 20 Kg Ledipasvir.....

Then call Gilead to negotiate with the drums in the same room

Then have lunch, featuring a squirrel feces salad as the appetizer

Well, that would make sense.
Therefore, it will be the last thing they would do.
All the fear-mongering in the U.S. about trade imbalance and our weak military....
The U.S. military budget is more than Russia, China, India, Japan and the EU combined.
$560.4 billion.

Gilead is really showing our men and women who served this country their gratitude by charging the VA $41,000 a pop.

Jeeeeezzzz....