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So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18640
Hi everyone, I've been wondering about this for a while. Why does the reading not say zero? Are the path labs hedging their bets? In the future will there be tests that can detect progressively smaller amounts? Genotype 1a Diagnosed in 2004, had HCV for all my adult life. Until 2016!!!! Harvoni treatment, started 19 March 2016 4 week results Bilirubin 12 down from 14 pre treatment, Gamma 25 down from 52, ALT 19 down from 63, AST 19 down from 47, VL <15 down from a lazy 6 million or so EOT Results Bilirubin 10, GGT 18, ALT 19, AST 21, VL UND 12 Weeks post EOT Bilirubin 11, GGT 16, ALT 22, AST 20, VL UND Cured baby | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18642
Good morning Beaches I'm guessing you're swimming in the 20 degree water soon lucky duckie it's brrrrrr here woke me up! Re your query I do recall that this was addressed a while back maybe by James Praps a mod can find the info and bump the thread so we can read it I hope I am right lol Maybe it's an actual conversation I am recalling Anyway it's an important question so let's wait for the answer again xxx A Gen 1a Peg/inf/riba 2012(!) stop @ Wk 43 potassium low +issues (rlps week 4 post tx, VL120,000) scnds eg. adenomas. pre sof/led VL 240,000 Fibsc F0 Day 25 <30 Day 32 UND Week 10 UND EOT UND ALT11AST17GGT19 SVR4 UND ALT10 AST16 GGT13 SVR8 UND ALT <9 AST16 GGT15 SVR12 UND ALT14 AST19 GGT12 Bili 5 EOT +18 ALT13 AST20 GGT9 Bili 5 EOT +21 ALT11AST15 Cured SVR12 Dysplasia Adenomas RemvdAug '16 SVR24 UND ALT11AST16 ColonoscopyClear Nov17 LumpectomyClear ‘18 LithotripsyCytoscopyBiopsy 4/18 | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18651
Hello Beaches, There have been many discussions about this, please check "Index"-->Expert corner fixhepc.com/forum/viral-load-and-svr.html Nishkama Karma Cùng nhau loại bỏ Viêm gan C trên khắp thế giới! | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18652
Undetected means too low to measure as in <6 or <8 depending on the test and I'd it is plasma or serum being tested. It does NOT mean zero, thus undetected people relapse. YMMV | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18653
Deep. Sigh. Thanks. Any strategies to prevent relapse? Genotype 1a Diagnosed in 2004, had HCV for all my adult life. Until 2016!!!! Harvoni treatment, started 19 March 2016 4 week results Bilirubin 12 down from 14 pre treatment, Gamma 25 down from 52, ALT 19 down from 63, AST 19 down from 47, VL <15 down from a lazy 6 million or so EOT Results Bilirubin 10, GGT 18, ALT 19, AST 21, VL UND 12 Weeks post EOT Bilirubin 11, GGT 16, ALT 22, AST 20, VL UND Cured baby | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18659
| Beaches, all I can add, is to make sure you've treated yourself with the best appropriate DAA's for your genotype, fibrosis & past treatment history. Once you've done that, "CROSS YOUR FINGERS" Like us all on here, hope & pray for the UNDETECTED SVR 12 & 24. Australian Geno type 1a Fibrosis 3-4 Treatment experienced Peg-Interferon Ribavirin (Relapsed) Started 22/10/15 DAA's 24 weeks Sofosbuvir Ledisbovir & 12 weeks Ribavirin Viral Load at week 4 <15 Detected Viral Load at week 12 Undetected Viral Load at week 24 Undetected Viral Load SVR4 Undetected Viral Load SVR12 Undetected |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18661
Hi beaches, keep up the healthy lifestyle and diet, relax and don't let yourself stress over it while you wait. Your profile suggests that you are at least 97% certain of clearing. G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC) 24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed 24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed 16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18674
As Gaj says you have odds 30:1 in your favour. If I was a betting man and you were a horse I would definitely have money on the nose for you! Relax, it will almost certainly be fine, and even if you did relapse we have 1 more good treatment available now, with the promise of another 3 in the next few months. Even if you managed to fail all of those there will be new options. YMMV The following user(s) said Thank You: pat1, mgalbrai, Ariel, Matt-Kenney-google, katy8katy0, GT2, fitz, Sven | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18675
Thanks Doc, it's good to know I'm not ready for the glue factory yet Genotype 1a Diagnosed in 2004, had HCV for all my adult life. Until 2016!!!! Harvoni treatment, started 19 March 2016 4 week results Bilirubin 12 down from 14 pre treatment, Gamma 25 down from 52, ALT 19 down from 63, AST 19 down from 47, VL <15 down from a lazy 6 million or so EOT Results Bilirubin 10, GGT 18, ALT 19, AST 21, VL UND 12 Weeks post EOT Bilirubin 11, GGT 16, ALT 22, AST 20, VL UND Cured baby | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18698
So.... Undetected and "Negative" are the same thing? This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. forums.delphiforums.com/generichcvtx G 1a F-1 Started tx 10/23/15 (Meso sof & led) ALT 48 AST 28 v/l 1.6 mil 11/17/15 4 wk lab ALT 17 AST 16 <15 11/18/15 Started Harvoni 12/16/15 8 wk lab ALT: 15 AST: 13 V/l UND 1/14/16 Fin. Tx 7/07/16 UND SVR 24 | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18705
I wasn't planning on doing SVR24 Is this necessary? I was told SVR12 is it by my hospital My GP and I will follow the protocol suggested here I'm sorry to hijack your thread here Beaches but I noted this issue and I think others may also want to know the best lab protocols for us going forward Ty for bringing this up Michael So please can I have feedback re doing a test for SVR24 Ty Ariel Gen 1a Peg/inf/riba 2012(!) stop @ Wk 43 potassium low +issues (rlps week 4 post tx, VL120,000) scnds eg. adenomas. pre sof/led VL 240,000 Fibsc F0 Day 25 <30 Day 32 UND Week 10 UND EOT UND ALT11AST17GGT19 SVR4 UND ALT10 AST16 GGT13 SVR8 UND ALT <9 AST16 GGT15 SVR12 UND ALT14 AST19 GGT12 Bili 5 EOT +18 ALT13 AST20 GGT9 Bili 5 EOT +21 ALT11AST15 Cured SVR12 Dysplasia Adenomas RemvdAug '16 SVR24 UND ALT11AST16 ColonoscopyClear Nov17 LumpectomyClear ‘18 LithotripsyCytoscopyBiopsy 4/18 | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18708
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Hi Ariel, in my case the SVR 24 is because I was on 24 week treatment , G1a, F3 / 4 & relapsed on peg interferon / riba. I'm sure I'll be excited if my SVR 12 results come in as undetected but the SVR 24 will be the icing on the cake. I may also have a SVR 48 just for peace of mind. Australian Geno type 1a Fibrosis 3-4 Treatment experienced Peg-Interferon Ribavirin (Relapsed) Started 22/10/15 DAA's 24 weeks Sofosbuvir Ledisbovir & 12 weeks Ribavirin Viral Load at week 4 <15 Detected Viral Load at week 12 Undetected Viral Load at week 24 Undetected Viral Load SVR4 Undetected Viral Load SVR12 Undetected |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18713
Hi all, I may be wrong but my understanding is that the SVR24 test came from the old Peg/Riba treatment which had higher late relapse rates. With the DAAs testing at 12 weeks gives similar predictability to the old regimes 24 week test so SVR12 is considered the standard by most authorities these days. Obviously it won't hurt to have a SVR24 test (other than possibly your bank account) so if that gives you confidence further down the track go for it but don't spend the extra three months stressing over it. Edit: Dr James explains it far better than me. fixhepc.com/forum/viral-load-and-svr/860...we-call-it-cure.html G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC) 24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed 24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed 16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND | |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18715
| Forum Main Forum Experts Corner Viral Load and SVR Understanding SVR - Why don't we call it cure? REPLY TOPIC SUBSCRIBE FAVORITE TOPIC: Understanding SVR - Why don't we call it cure? Understanding SVR - Why don't we call it cure? 2 months 4 weeks ago #13685 James-Freeman-facebook James-Freeman-facebook's Avatar ONLINE Platinum Member Posts: 820 Thank you received: 3038 Karma: 40 SVR means Sustained Viral Response. When we stop the medications if there is no virus left you will remain undetected and this is SVR. Undetected at 4 weeks post finishing - SVR4 - predicts a 96% chance of permanent cure Undetected at 12 weeks post finishing - SVR12 - predicts a 99% chance of permanent cure Undetected at 24 weeks post finishing - SVR24 - predicts a 99.9% chance of permanent cure So if you finish treatment and there is virus left it will grow back, your viral load will increase again and you relapse. If we can not detect any virus you are at SVR and the longer that remains the case the more certain we are it is permanent. Patients reaching SVR24 post interferon/ribavirin have remained virus free for 18 years of follow up. With DAAs we don't have that length of follow up but basically with no drugs to hold the virus off if it is still present it grows back, and if it is not still present it can not grow back because it is gone. You can be confident at SVR4, really confident at SVR12 and pronounce yourself cured at SVR24. There is a strong suspicion that anyone relapsing after SVR24 is not a relapse, but rather a reinfection because if the virus has had 24 drug weeks to grow back and has not..... YMMV Report to moderator QUICK REPLY REPLY QUOTE THANK YOU The following user(s) said Thank You: tweakmax, Chapel, Joy, LondonGirl, coral, 2b, mgalbrai, CJ, Debs, Paul-Jarman-facebook, Ariel, Gaj, Lynne-Francis-facebook, isaing4, magpie, jay kim Understanding SVR - Why don't we call it cure? 2 months 4 weeks ago #13691 Lynne-Francis-facebook Lynne-Francis-facebook's Avatar OFFLINE Elite Member Posts: 177 Thank you received: 264 Karma: 3 So do you recommend being tested at 24 weeks as well and 4 & 12? Lives in Bendigo, Victoria No prior treatment Genotype 1b Fibroscan 0 (only showed a bit of a fatty liver) Diagnosed in February 2015 Currently on my last week of treatment taking led/sof Last LFT normal Insomnia the only side effect Undetected at 4 weeks SVR4 - undetected - all bloods good and GP very happy SVR12 bloods to be done at end of April 2016 SVR12 - undetected!!! Report to moderator QUICK REPLY REPLY QUOTE THANK YOU The following user(s) said Thank You: LondonGirl, Ariel, IRMA88, isaing4, magpie Understanding SVR - Why don't we call it cure? 2 months 4 weeks ago #13695 James-Freeman-facebook James-Freeman-facebook's Avatar ONLINE Platinum Member Posts: 820 Thank you received: 3038 Karma: 40 Yes, it's probably not a bad idea but unless you were one of those asymptomatic people with normal liver functions if you did relapse you would expect to feel sick and this to be obvious on your liver function tests. After SVR24 maybe check it in a year to satisfy paranoia and declare yourself cured beyond all reasonable doubt. YMMV Report to moderator QUICK REPLY REPLY QUOTE THANK YOU The following user(s) said Thank You: CJ, Ariel, Lynne-Francis-facebook, isaing4, magpie, Michael-Henry-facebook, jay kim REPLY TOPIC SUBSCRIBE FAVORITE Forum Main Forum Experts Corner Viral Load and SVR Understanding SVR - Why don't we call it cure? Australian Geno type 1a Fibrosis 3-4 Treatment experienced Peg-Interferon Ribavirin (Relapsed) Started 22/10/15 DAA's 24 weeks Sofosbuvir Ledisbovir & 12 weeks Ribavirin Viral Load at week 4 <15 Detected Viral Load at week 12 Undetected Viral Load at week 24 Undetected Viral Load SVR4 Undetected Viral Load SVR12 Undetected |
So, what does UND mean really? (or there's no pleasing some folk 7 years 10 months ago #18717
My .02 cents as a very new person on this forum: It is hard enough going through treatment and hoping that you are cured, with the chance to be cured, rather than sit around saying even if you go through treatment if you don't get to SVR 24 you will relapse or have the possibility of relapse. I was always taught to appreciate the opportunities you're given and try to make the best of them and then when issues come up take care of them at that time. Why look at a bad ending when you're not even done with treatment, or not even at SVR 4 then start looking at 24 and getting worried. I say we do the best we can, live life to the fullest and hope for the best.... it's more that are insurance companies gave us this is a great place to be ! Or did I miss something? I hope I came across has looking at the glass half full ! Contracted HCV 1980's Geno Type 1a F3 ( doc says once treated I'll be F2 maybe F1) Meds shipped 6/17/2016 arrived early 7/2016 Viral count - 3,471,080 4 week quantitative bloods: August 17, 2016. I have been diagnosed as <15 (told undetected) 8 week quantitative bloods: September 14th. I have been diagnosed as <15 (told undetected) 11 week PCR RNA Qualitative bloods: September 26th 2016 - Undetected December 19th 2016: Cured! Viral count: zero!!! 2018 viral count: still zero! Cured! | |
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