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TOPIC: Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks

Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #179

  • dointime
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Anybody who has been correctly diagnosed as having liver cirrhosis will not find that it is gone right after achieving SVR with a 12 or 12 week treatment of the new DAAs. Or should I say, I have never heard of that happening. The liver is an organ that can regenerate itself. Some people who have had cirrhosis have reported that their level of fibrosis did improve some over time, but they were talking about years, not months. I have heard of others who were not cirrhotic that their liver fibrosis improved a lot over time, as measured by fibroscan.

dt
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #181

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Yes, it won't just disappear, but there is good reason to be optimistic about fibrosis regression...

SVR After Therapy Reduced Inflammation, Fibrosis in HCV Patients

“The observations of the present study strongly suggest that fibrosis regression, including resolution of cirrhosis, will occur in the vast majority of patients who will achieve SVR with these future therapies.”

At SVR the processes driving fibrosis should stop so things should not get worse and over time there is evidence things improve for many patients.
YMMV
Last Edit: 2 years 9 months ago by DrJames.
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #240

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I know a few people here in Australia have have recently treated, some with Viekira Pak (Geno 1s) nd other with sofosbuvir and ribavirin (Geno 3s) all were cirrhotic with cricket scores for liver function ALT, AST and GGT and a range of other issues associated with the cirrhosis. It is amazing that all since SVR they have within normal range liver function. All are feeling the best they have in a long time and so I guess there will be an expectation that things will only improve from this point. It would be interesting to track some of this with research, perhaps it's already been done to some degree? Em
Geno 1b F2/3 snce early 80s. Treated in 2008_9 for 63 weeks on INF/Riba. Commence Sof/Dac on 6 October 2015 and completed 18 weeks of tx. UND at 4-6 weeks, UND at EOT, SVR 2, SVR 6 and SVR 12 on 6 May 2016.
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #242

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Hi Em,

Do you have the liver fibrosis score for any of these people from before and after their treatments, as shown by fibroscan or biopsy? Liver function tests alone are not enough to tell us about the extent of liver scarring that there is. I am not prepared to believe that a shrivelled, lumpy cirrhotic liver can regress back to the state of a nice soft elastic unscarred liver in 12 weeks. I would love to be proved wrong about this.

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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #247

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Hi DT

I wasn't commenting on scarring or fibrosis and I understand that the correlation between LF testing is no indication of fibrosis progression. I guess I was just providing insight into several friends have now are feeling much better and LF coming back to within range. A good news story I guess. Em
Geno 1b F2/3 snce early 80s. Treated in 2008_9 for 63 weeks on INF/Riba. Commence Sof/Dac on 6 October 2015 and completed 18 weeks of tx. UND at 4-6 weeks, UND at EOT, SVR 2, SVR 6 and SVR 12 on 6 May 2016.
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #250

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Oh, ok.

I'll tell you where I'm coming from. I think that there is a really good thing happening over there where you are. That message needs to get out and is getting out. But what is most likely to discredit it is if the messengers over-egg the pudding. I've seen some claims which have made me cringe (not talking about you here) and I fear might have made others run for the hills. That's bad because there is so much of value being offered that is helpful, and that will be missed.

So, good news stories and positive thinking, great. I love fairy tales too, but they have their place.

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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #256

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Sure valid point! But with my own experience on IFN/Riba for an extended period was that even when I cleared I was that messed up from the chemicals I couldn't say that I had a sense of wellness, I was a bitter and twisted mess. And what I'm hearing from many people who are clearing now with DAAs they are feeling better than they had in a long long time. We don't know what we don't know hey? While this isn't a scientifically validated fact, I am excited by the chance of feeling this way once again. See me there in my avatar, I want to get through that barrier, here's hoping anyway. Sorry if this seems overly emotive and not backed by research. This isn't a fairytale to those people, we have people on this site stating this and from other local forums. Lol dt love ya work oo Em
Geno 1b F2/3 snce early 80s. Treated in 2008_9 for 63 weeks on INF/Riba. Commence Sof/Dac on 6 October 2015 and completed 18 weeks of tx. UND at 4-6 weeks, UND at EOT, SVR 2, SVR 6 and SVR 12 on 6 May 2016.
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 9 months ago #258

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I couldn't agree more! During and after my last stint on ifn I felt like I'd been run over by a Mack truck and it took a long time to get out of that hole. I am excited too by people telling how they feel rejuvenated so quickly after starting treatment. Bring it on!
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 8 months ago #267

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Accessing these medications might not be as simple as seeing a doctor, going to a pharmacy, and then getting them - but it is entirely possible.

Patients are doing it and the results look good. The absolute proof of SVR24 is not yet available but only because generics have only been available for 6 months. Our testing indicates that the generics are good copies so the only real reason they won't demonstrate similar results is if the real active ingredient happened to be a small manufacturing by product contaminating the active.

This site, the forum, the chat part are just as much about social proof as they are about provisioning good quality information to people with a need to know.

A Google for

"dr james freeman" hepatitis c

www.google.com.au/#q=%22dr+james+freeman%22+hepatitis+c

Will turn up stuff dating back for the last 6 months.
YMMV
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 2 months ago #14341

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After generic treatment bloods revealed virus not detected. I have F4 cirrhosis and still feel abdo pain have problems with digestion and ulcerative colitis.
I look after my liver and have done so for over a year.
I was wondering if there were a chance for my liver to improve or will it stay the same and possibly move from compensated cirrhosis to decompensated cirrhosis?
Diagnosed Hep C 2013
Geno Type: 1a
Treatment: Naïve
Cirrhosis
F4
2015 GGT 227 AST 79 ALT 89 Platelets 88
2016 Treatment Generic Harvoni Finished 29 March 2016
GGT 30 AST 19 ALP 67 Platelets 91
Qualitative Test Results April 12
Hepatitis C NAT (NA): Not Detected
P.C.R Test for Hep C 4th July: Negative
Virus Free
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 2 months ago #14364

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Hi Stew,

Like you, I'm F4. I recently spoke with my specialist who told me that with the inflammation caused by HCV gone my cirrhosis was unlikely to worsen and would probably improve. He also mentioned that in some people the improvement can be remarkable. He did mention that my platelets steadily inproving back into the normal range was a positive sign for me as platelet count is linked to cellular repair.
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 2 months ago #14371

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Would Milk Thistle help?
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Genotype 3
VL 4,100,000
ALT 101 AST 71
Treatment Naive
Started Sof/Dac Jan 12, 2016
VL= <15 4 weeks in. AST/ALT normal.
VL=UNDETECTED 8 weeks in.
SVR4= Virus back. 3,300,000

Started generic Epclusa Sep. 23, 2017

4 weeks in <15 *Detected.
12 weeks in <15 *Not Detected.
16 weeks in <15 *Not Detected.
Finished 24 weeks treatment 3-17-18
SVR5 <15 Not Detected.


I know I will be cured.
Thank you Jesus.
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 2 years 2 months ago #14373

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While there is some suggestion that Silybum marianum (who thinks up these names? :lol: ) reduces inflammation and improves liver function there doesn't appear to be much solid evidence regarding cirrhosis regression.

www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/mil...vidence/hrb-20059806

Hopefully, if SVR resolves my liver inflammation and improves its function anyway then I think I would prefer to let my body heal naturally for now in the area of cirrhosis regression. But with a watchful eye on the large amount of research that is happening in this field. :+1:
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Last Edit: 2 years 2 months ago by Gaj.
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 1 year 5 months ago #23408

Hi I finished 24 weeks of LEDIPASVIR / SOFOSBUVIR on Nov 3rd 2016 and soon to have my 12 week post treatment blood tests. If I am still virus negative then, I am deemed to be cured.
I have chronic cirrhosis, with enlarged spleen and gall bladder so I still feel quite unwell.
In retrospect I think I am improving slowly and can do a few more physical tasks than prior to treatment.
The first improvement I was aware of, only a few weeks into treatment was the 'BRAIN-FOG" I had been trying to function with for DECADES!! had cleared a lot.
I certainly feel better in spirit and now think of myself having a future [ I am 65 ] rather than just struggling to get through the day!
Becoming more and more unwell over the last 20 to 30 years cost me nearly everything I loved. My partner of 10 years, my business of 35 years, even my ability to read a book, my perfect escape of a lifetime abandoned me.
I try and eat well, I still smoke ciggies, and am looking forward to, hopefully feeling a little better each day.
THANK YOU TO Dr JAMES FREEMAN and the FIX HEP C Organisation for this hope of a future, after decades of slowly but surely running out of steam, it means the world to me.
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Liver Cirrhosis does not disappear in 12 weeks 1 year 5 months ago #23412

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dointime wrote:
Anybody who has been correctly diagnosed as having liver cirrhosis will not find that it is gone right after achieving SVR with a 12 or 12 week treatment of the new DAAs. Or should I say, I have never heard of that happening. The liver is an organ that can regenerate itself. Some people who have had cirrhosis have reported that their level of fibrosis did improve some over time, but they were talking about years, not months. I have heard of others who were not cirrhotic that their liver fibrosis improved a lot over time, as measured by fibroscan.

dt
Hi logged after being away for a while... re this reversal of cirrhosis, I can report that I had it 18+ years. When I started Daa's late 2015 it was urgent, with a Kp of 40. At end of treatment had halved to 22, still high but good result. At 24 weeks SVR, down to 9.5 so F2-3 which I had thought impossible. All tests done by same expert on modern machine on 12 hour empty stomach. I keep feeling better so I think when I go back again in a couple months will be lower still...... I didn't know this was possible either, but it is.
Genotype 3 30 years, 2x treatment interferon/ribavirin non responder. Cirrhosis 17 years. Fibroscan 40 down to 22 by 29/3/16- now down to 7, no cirrhosis. Started Buyers Club Sof/Dac 14 Nov 15. SVR 12 29/0716
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