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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12740

From the UK HepC forum :
Patient given out of date medicines with a weak response when patient noticed :

www.hepcukforum.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13946

:ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy:
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC

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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12743

  • Gaj
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WTF!!! :angry:

- I just looked up the shelflife of viekirax and found it is three years.
- The nurse's response is unacceptable but occurred because there should have been checks in place to stop it ever getting that far.

As I've commented before these sort of things become ingrained throughout the system unless they are brought to the appropriate people's attention.
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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Last edit: by Gaj.

UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12744

Yep, Feel for the guy, the response was dreadful - Harder for him as he was told he would get Harvoni, then when he went in for tx, they had changed it to VPak. After getting over that scenario, he went to get started on tx and now had this. Anxious times starting txt, but this is the way the NHS is going now and we are reading worrying reports more and more frequently of severe errors in care. What is really upsetting to patients, is their 'don't really care' attitude when something goes wrong. All part of the plan by current Gvt to run the service down and into the hands of private companies. Patient care is out of the window apart from a few excellent hospitals who are individually pro-active in trying to retain that side of things. I know sometimes we UK members sound like alot of moaners, but unless you can experience it first hand, it's hard to understand the stress and frustration it can cause.

I can only repeat to all UK NHS people - Check everything, get test results, check and keep on file and check the dates dates on your meds!

(edit) In fact, all patients everywhere check your meds & data etc !
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC
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Last edit: by LondonGirl.

UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12748

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Actually it's often not a lot better over here but I reckon you're not moaning loud enough, or in writing enough! :P

It's a systemic problem, so make it easier for them to fix the problem than to keep responding to your complaints that keep escalating up the chain of command. Most people will take the easy path = the squeaky wheel getting oil, etc.....so don't target the people involved, instead direct your complaint to how they can focus on fixing the process that allowed the error to occur (unless of course the person involved was a "right jobsworth!" ;) ).

And make a point to check the date code when they hand you the meds. When they notice you doing that you've trained them to check before giving them to you in future. B)
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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Last edit: by Gaj.

UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12749

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How long is that drug on the market it seems strange its out of date so early considering they
only started using these drugs recently I would think they can send them back and get new stock.

I agree with everyone this is totally miserable for the patient in question am pretty confident they
will sort him out with new in date drugs. At least I bloody hope they do.
Sob/Dac from Oct 29 2015
Geno 1b
Fiberscan 9.9 Pre treatment
Fiberscan 7.4 week 10
VL 1.3 million pre treatment
Week 2.5 VL 96
Week 5.5 VL 17
Week 10 VL UD
SVR 3 UD
SVR 16 UD
Cured:
All liver functions in normal ranges.

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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12751

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I would imagine the manufacturer probably made inventory pre-approval and is clearing that out first but would have supplied with some shelflife left. No doubt they will supply replacement stock if asked but probably means the pharmacist has to fill in a bunch of paperwork to complete the return....much easier to just hand it out and hope no one complains. :dry:
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12753

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Hi Gaj, I was looking at your stats you're a F4 do you have a decompressed liver whats it being like
for you pre treatment.
Sob/Dac from Oct 29 2015
Geno 1b
Fiberscan 9.9 Pre treatment
Fiberscan 7.4 week 10
VL 1.3 million pre treatment
Week 2.5 VL 96
Week 5.5 VL 17
Week 10 VL UD
SVR 3 UD
SVR 16 UD
Cured:
All liver functions in normal ranges.

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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12756

How long is that drug on the market it seems strange its out of date so early considering they
only started using these drugs recently


They have been using the Abbvie for a while on 'compassionate access'. My friend was treated with it some time ago. He was the one that was detected EOT, then VL rose to +51 post tx and they said he had failed. 3 months later he was clear.Thankfully. Point being the Abbvie was being used a while back (last year in this case) .
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC

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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12776

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Sirchinenge wrote: Hi Gaj, I was looking at your stats you're a F4 do you have a decompressed liver whats it being like
for you pre treatment.


Hi Sir, fortunately I have remained compensated and hope to stay that way or better with treatment. As with many who have HCV I wasn't aware I had a problem for close to 35 years until my annual checkup in 2012 revealed ALT of over 900 and AST close behind which resulted in my diagnosis. Cut the drink and changed diet and lifestyle but remained around 2-400 except for a short period after failed Peg/Riba. About 15 months ago my symptoms started to worsen and monitoring revealed I was developing a lot of regenerative nodules a couple of which turned into HCCs and needed removing. In layman terms my immune system and the virus were having a ding dong fight with no one winning and I was copping the blows from it. By October last year when I learnt of generics availability I was exhausted with multiple symptoms and unable to function either socially or at work. Thankfully Dr James, Greg and a few others were doing their magic by then and I have an enlightened specialist who was prepared to act in the best interests of his patients.

While we drifted a little off topic :unsure: the point I'd like to stress is that while HCV can seem benign for many years, it can suddenly go down hill very quickly as I experienced. So people should consider treating as soon as they can and delays and false starts such as the above that destroy confidence should not be part of the process once the patient has commenced down the Tx path.
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12777

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I'm glad you sourced tx here Gaj
I'm sorry to hear about the HCC and hope things are much more straightforward from herein
I understand the immune system crash but escaped the HCC rather, I developed other secondary nasties all of which are gone or watched
Thank gawd for this magic stuff. I'm off topic too but following your story.
Noticed James posted re shelf life in a seperate thread :)
Gen 1a
Peg/inf/riba 2012(!) stop @ Wk 43 potassium low +issues (rlps week 4 post tx, VL120,000) scnds eg. adenomas.
pre sof/led VL 240,000 Fibsc F0
Day 25 <30
Day 32 UND
Week 10 UND
EOT UND ALT11AST17GGT19
SVR4 UND ALT10 AST16 GGT13
SVR8 UND ALT <9 AST16 GGT15
SVR12 UND ALT14 AST19 GGT12 Bili 5
EOT +18 ALT13 AST20 GGT9 Bili 5
EOT +21 ALT11AST15
Cured SVR12
Dysplasia Adenomas RemvdAug '16
SVR24 UND ALT11AST16
ColonoscopyClear Nov17
LumpectomyClear ‘18
LithotripsyCytoscopyBiopsy 4/18
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UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #12782

Hi Gaj, Sorry to read all you've been through and thank God you got treated. I think I've also had the virus a long time and instinct (along with Prof Dusheiko) told me I needed to treat soon for the exact reasons you mention. I believe the virus ramps up quite a bit when you reach age >50 too, I knew I was 'on the turn' at that point. This happened to an old friend, I fear we're going to lose him as he wasn't monitored at all. He was diagnosed Non Hep A /B years ago and had the odd check up, he was young then and in general good health & still drinking alcohol. His consultant eventually said "You obviously seem in good health, so I don't need to see you any more" . Preventative is good! So glad you've been monitored well and nipped things in the bud. Without the virus attacking you, you can look forward to a brighter, healthier and happier future.

Hi Ariel, Yes I with interest Dr F's post on out of date meds. Interesting, as here we are often reminded to keep an eye out for dates on meds, maybe they just want us to keep buying more?! I agree with Gaj though, I was going to write that it can cause a 'loss of confidence" in patients when such details are missed, causing a delayed start of tx after psyching yourself up for it, unanswered calls to hospitals etc ; especially at a crucial time like starting tx and I see Gaj has used a very similar turn of phrase.

As my GP said to me "It's important to have faith in those who treat us" ... How understated yet perfectly put.
GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 'In the slow lane'
June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC
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Last edit: by LondonGirl.

UK NHS - Giving out of date meds ! 6 years 6 months ago #13363

Whoever gave them to her should have checked the expiration date before giving them to her.

If they contact the drug company they will give them new meds to replace the expired ones....unless they were given to them as samples.

I would have said to the nurse, "I want an incident report filled out with the name of the person who gave me the expired meds and I want to talk to your supervisor".

You'll see how quickly they give her new meds.

P.
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