Forum Replies Created
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AuthorPosts
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LondonGirl wrote:
Gilead is getting away with this because HCV sufferers are stigmatized as doped up, inked up, locked up or screwed up in their youth. Many people think we somehow deserve this as punishment for past deviant behavior.
Sadly, I believe this to be true.
No, it’s not just the stigma of this particular disease – all sorts of drug prices are being jacked up in the US.
The question that should be asked is why has the country constructed laws that make this kind of behaviour legally tolerable? Why is the profit motive given such freedom of action above any societal concerns?
Focussing on Gilead is a distraction from these much deeper and more serious issues. It’s fine that it has got your attention, but the same behaviour is being repeated in many other cases. Such companies, and the lawmakers who enable them, need to be looked at as a group and their behaviour analysed and reformed. That’s where the anger needs to be focussed.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)mgalbrai wrote:Gilead is getting away with this because HCV sufferers are stigmatized as doped up, inked up, locked up or screwed up in their youth. Many people think we somehow deserve this as punishment for past deviant behavior.
So, the rich can easily pay $100,000. The poor qualify for all sorts of patient assistance programs. The people in the middle, they are always getting screwed. Gilead based its price on what the market would bear, not research or healthcare savings. Yes, I could have bought Harvoni, but I would have had to sell or refinance our home on the verge of retirement and work until I was 77. But if you are dead or your quality of life sucks, why worry about retirement.
Imagine, Gilead comes up with a vaccine that will prevent breast cancer. It must be administered before age 10 to effective. They price the shot at $100,000, stating research costs and potential health care savings as justification.How long would that fly?
The CEO would be drawn and quartered, probably within hours.
The Board would be crucified.Mike
Here’s a question that obliquely relates to your (valid) points: If Gilead were seen to be a monopoly abusing their position, why is the government being slow to step in and bring them to heel, especially given that it is a public health issue?
Sure, Microsoft got a bit of stick for its anti-competitive behaviour, but that was software and this is an acute and expensive health issue for the US. (And other countries have seemed able to put effective pressure on Gilead, especially considering the very short timeframe over which all of this has been taking place).
Why is it getting away with this monopoly? Because it has competitors?
Why is the main sticking point the US? What is the problem with your legislators?
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)splitdog wrote:A.L. wrote:[quote=”splitdog” post=8884]This whole thread should be deleted. All it will do is divide us, just as politics is doing in the US right now.
This comment is in error on a number of levels. Firstly, most of my opinions are shared by most posters here, that is, that Gilead have been greedy and that FixHepC and its team are doing a fantastic job. I’m pretty sure that this is a common understanding. Secondly, there is nothing divisive at all about discussing the complexity of an issue rather than turning it into a black-and-white hate festival. From my point of view, the truly divisive comments are by people that express very aggressive hatred toward Gilead while at the same time buying that company’s products that have been produced under licence. Criticism here is one thing, but if one truly hates the company, then one shouldn’t be using its products.
I agree that politics is divided in the US, but the main reason for this is that voters are encouraged to think in simplified, childish terms that sees the difference between parties as choices between Good and Evil. And this is a result of shutting down debate when faced with an point of view you disagree with.
By considering both sides of the argument, I am encouraging readers to think about the issue, not to divide them. If they see my behaviour as being divisive, then maybe it is the education they received that needs to be looked at.
Screaming abuse, blocking ones ears, and calling for censorship is not useful behaviour in a complex and emotional debate..[/quote]
What I meant was, we have a loving, mutual, trusting relationship here with everybody helping everybody. We are all after the same thing. But when you start putting politics in, lots of other things come into play. People’s feelings can get hurt, and bonds can be broken fast. I have seen it countless times. I love to debate politics as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day, it would be counterproductive to our camaraderie and Hep C. Been there, done that. The internet is famous for 2 people liking the same 10 or 15 things in common, and all it takes is 1 thing to break that all up. It’s not worth it to me. But by all means, continue. As an Independent, I am for freedom as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody. And that doesn’t include feelings. [/quote]
OK, I see where you’re coming from and will try to smooth the edges of my arguments in order not to provoke more than necessary.
However, I will also continue to maintain my position that hate mongering against Gilead is not a productive way to deal with this issue. Venting anger needs to be balanced with applied rationality if the truths of the matter are to be clarified. Mutual support is one thing, but it is better done supported by reason and fact than, how can I put this diplomatically, “emoting”.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)mgalbrai wrote:…Calling for censorship is fine. …
MikeNo, it isn’t.
Unless there has been a serious violation of community guidelines, calling for censorship is ignorant, vexatious and counterproductive.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Greedfighter wrote:Emilio, I totally agree but 200K vets x 90K is 18 billion! That buys a lot of private jets and hookers! GREEDIAD!!!!
Gilead did not factor in community outrage when pricing its goods in the US and this let them express their greed. After all, they are a business playing by the rules, not a charity.
But they changed their tunes and have responded in a number of other countries with a licensing compromise. You might even have bought their good through such channels. That they are playing hardball in the United States possibly tells us more about what sort of behaviour is permissible there, but I’m sure that intelligent lobbying will bring them around to a more acceptable pricing strategy in other countries (hopefully including the US).
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)splitdog wrote:This whole thread should be deleted. All it will do is divide us, just as politics is doing in the US right now.
This comment is in error on a number of levels. Firstly, most of my opinions are shared by most posters here, that is, that Gilead have been greedy and that FixHepC and its team are doing a fantastic job. I’m pretty sure that this is a common understanding. Secondly, there is nothing divisive at all about discussing the complexity of an issue rather than turning it into a black-and-white hate festival. From my point of view, the truly divisive comments are by people that express very aggressive hatred toward Gilead while at the same time buying that company’s products that have been produced under licence. Criticism here is one thing, but if one truly hates the company, then one shouldn’t be using its products.
I agree that politics is divided in the US, but the main reason for this is that voters are encouraged to think in simplified, childish terms that sees the difference between parties as choices between Good and Evil. And this is a result of shutting down debate when faced with an point of view you disagree with.
By considering both sides of the argument, I am encouraging readers to think about the issue, not to divide them. If they see my behaviour as being divisive, then maybe it is the education they received that needs to be looked at.
Screaming abuse, blocking ones ears, and calling for censorship is not useful behaviour in a complex and emotional debate..
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Greedfighter wrote:…To post in the media or online in USA is to risk a lawsuit by a corporation and economic suicide or even legal action. Don’t underestimate the power of the greedy elite. You can’t confront Goliath. You have to hurl rocks from afar and get lucky to slay him! One lucky shot, right in the eye…David did it
Many good points, Greedfighter. That really says it all about the particular species of neoliberalism that the US is exporting and which minnows like Australia are keen to adopt. Let’s hope that this site keeps strong along with the heroes who are doing the sweating for the rest of us.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Chester wrote:Can we have the facility to hide the posts of specific members like they have on some forums? There’s one members’ posts I’d just rather not bother reading.
I guess that you’re talking about me. In my defence, all of my posts have been direct and clear, and some of them even helpful.
If the fact that I have a different point of you on just one aspect of this issue means that you would like to erase me from your view, then I am saddened that debate has sunk to the level where people can only bear to exist in an echo chamber of their own opinions.
If I’m being a little forward in my opinion, it is in reply to the vitriolic hate being expressed here at times. I quite understand the frustration, but I don’t think that one-sided fury in a complex argument should stand unaddressed.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Vororo wrote:Dear A.L.,
If you bought a new top of the range car with all the latest gadgets (speed control, air conditioning, parking assist, econo-boost engine, interior LEDs, the lot) for $50 000, you’d probably be pretty happy with the deal, right?
Suppose you then learn that the true cost of manufacturing that car (including all R&D and a fair profit margin) was only $1 000?
How would you feel about that?
This is how it is today with Gilead’s prices …
http://fixhepc.com/blog/item/25-the-real-development-cost-of-sofosbuvir.html
Hi!
But we’re not dealing with a car here. We are talking about a much more effective treatment than Peg-Interferon being marketed at levels that seem to be acceptable to the (dreadful) American medical/insurance system. The fact that they are profiteering…. well, I guess that’s why they are in business and we are sitting on the sidelines complaining.
That linked balance sheet is one part of a very complicated argument. As I’ve said before, I think Gilead are being greedy, but they are also doing a lot of the legwork and testing and so on. Their willingness to compromise for other countries maybe tells us more about the dire condition of the United States than the natural greed of a company who spotted and exploited a prime opportunity.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Gaj wrote:Hmm. Not sure that there have been any licensing deals with generics manufacturers that U.S. Vets admin can take advantage of? And responsive wouldn’t be the word I would apply to Gilead licensing deals in countries that did not recognise the patent. Perhaps reactive is a more appropriate description?
That’s a good point and relates to the core of the problem which is the way the US medical system allows profiteers, including Gilead, to operate. But Gilead is working rationally within the boundaries of a broken system. Fortunately this logic, reactive or not, has allowed India to manufacture generics under an agreement with them, and we are the beneficiaries of that logic.
I completely agree that they are greedy, but they are doing nothing illegal, and in this neoliberal world that we live in, this could be seen as doing nothing immoral.
While not sure what the PBS agreement has to do with the above discussion, we can go there if you like. I’m not privy to what the correct costs are so will accepts yours for now but as you more correctly point out further down your post the Australian government isn’t “footing the bill”. The Australian taxpayer is though, and as one I’m not sure I understand why we have to pay the price of $30k per Tx for something that the manufacturer can make for several hundred bucks (probably less) and generics manufacturers could supply for around 5-7% of Gilead’s price even after paying a 7% licensing fee?
I’m not sure of the details, either, but why was there no outrage over interferon costing $15,000 per treatment?
And I don’t see anything extraordinary in a publicly funded universal health care system such as Medicare paying for healthcare for all Australians, although I guess the profits that Gilead is still making on the deal would qualify for that word!
For one, it’s incredibly expensive to treat everyone, so the extraordinary thing for me is that they managed to get this deal happening at all, even though the price is still high for the taxpayer. The really strange thing is that they announced that there would be no triaging according to condition. That is, no sending healthy people to the back of the queue.I’d be very surprised if this was not just empty words as there is a lot of money involved.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)No reason to break any patents in any case. Gilled have been very responsive in their licensing deals for the generics and take, from what I’ve read, something like a 7% royalty – although I need to verify this.
The Australian agreement is interesting, also, with the price from Gilead being in the ballpark of $30,000 per treatment, which is only double what the Peg-interferon used to cost ($14,000–15,000). Some shrewd negotiating on both sides. And no reason for anyone here to complain, as the government will be footing the bill, which is an extraordinary thing!
So, in addition to Gilead, FixHepC, and the Australian Government, we really need to extend our thanks to the taxpayers of Australia, who will be underwriting this whole exercise.
This is all quite extraordinary!
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)sabrecat wrote:I expect now that the PBS (and then Gilead) pays, it is up to everyone to make the effort to look after themselves and take on treatment.
Using generics would be justice for Gilead’s greed, but now that they have supposedly agreed to limit their greed………?
…
Whatever happens, now I am UND and have experienced some weeks of a fuller life rather than the half life/fatigue crap one I have lived in the later part of my 25 years of having HepC. I wish others can get a bit of the same as well.
It’s getting a little old using Gilead as a whipping boy seeing as they produce the drug that is improving people’s health. As you say, “I am UND and have experienced some weeks of a fuller life rather than the half life/fatigue crap one I have lived in the later part of my 25 years of having HepC”. Well, that suggests that Gilead have provided something very precious to you.
If you really need someone to crucify for greed and mendacity, send some hate in the direction of the vitamin companies. Unlike Gilead, they mislead with the advertised benefits of their products and benefit hugely. Gilead provide a demonstrated cure, while the vitamin companies lie through their teeth to profit from people’s ignorance.
Yes, I admit that a couple of vitamins and supplements have demonstrated effectiveness in particular cases, but on the whole, it’s the companies on that particular side of Big Pharma are the real parasites on our society. The various developers of DAAs are paragons of virtue by comparison. Hell, even without comparison.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Thanks for that. Interesting attached article (analysing 358 drug users in an HIV study that began in 1985 and then finding 19 of them who became infected with HCV. Just trying to imagine the logistics involved with paperwork and specimen collection and storage with that amount of people, especially considering that the paper itself was published in 1999.)
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Very interesting! This is the kind of informative post we don’t often see (anywhere).
Can I ask, please, what is the difference between the 2 traces for each sample. Some of them are not perfect pairs, so I assume there is a difference of some kind.
A.L.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12)Chester wrote:Well, in terms of people currently on this site, I think it will be a cold day in hell before any of us feel other than utter and complete loathing for Gilead.
Please don’t speak for all of us.
I am very grateful to Michael Sofia (the inventor of Sofosbuvir and after whom the drug is named), to Gilead who risked 11 billion dollars to buy and produce it, and especially to FixHepC, who are helping many people to get access to this medicament.
I am taking the drug that Gilead make and so far, it seems to be working. I got it for a very good price from these guys here. Believe me, I am not going to complain about anyone who is part of this chain of cooperation that might be returning me to health.
G4, F4, cirrhosis.
Thank you to Gilead, Michael Sofia, and the terrific folk at FixHepC for making this adventure possible.
YEAR….. ALT….. AST….. GGT… FERRITIN………………………………….
2009……. 210….. 215….. 953….. 1400……….. (Bad health, stupidity)
2015……. 60……. 45……. 150….. 360…………. (Improved diet and health, FixHepC treatment)
2016……. 20……. 24……. 25……. 156…………. (SVR 12) -
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