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At the moment I suspect the answer is that no one knows because because as far as I know it hasn’t been researched let alone trialled.
The question of sofosbuvir monotherapy has been researched and trialed in the Pharmasset trial ELECTRON. This trial had an arm :
“PSI-7977 400 mg monotherapy for 12 weeks (n=10 GT2/3)”
(sofosbuvir used to be named PSI-7977 before Gilead bought it)
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/pharmasset-announces-further-expansion-of-electron-trial-in-hepatitis-c-131441993.htmlHere is one report from that trial, coincidentally involving Prof Gane:
http://www.elpa-info.org/elpa-news—reader/items/sofosbuvir-demonstrates-high-response-rate-in-interferon-free-combo-with-ribavirin-and-gs-5885.htm
“However, sofosbuvir monotherapy or sofosbuvir plus reduced-dose ribavirin for 12 weeks, or sofosbuvir plus standard-dose ribavirin for just 8 weeks, only cured about 60% of treatment-naive genotype 2/3 patients.”Gilead advise that sofosbuvir not be used as a monotherapy and they have trials that back this up. Whether you love Gilead or hate them, the homework was done on sofosbuvir. You really have to go back to the early trials done by Pharmasset to get the full history on how sofosbuvir was tested as a monotherapy and that option was quickly excluded from later trials as being not viable.
dt
The fewer DAAs being taken the less scope for developing resistance.
Thurl – this is not true. Monotherapy (with one DAA only) has been proven not to work because resistance soon emerges and repopulates the viral pool. Dual therapy (2 DAAs) works when each DAA can kill the RAVs selected by the other one.
dt
On the other subject of using Sofosbuvir as a prophylactic until something else comes along, probably not.
The “nuke” that Prof Gane is referring to is indeed Sofosbuvir which is a “Nucleotide analog”. It is fairly unique in the way it operates as it effects the HCV virus at two points. This does make it fairly immune to resistance but not totally so. So long term use as is being proposed could result in resistant strains developing.
Gaj – I don’t think resistance would be a problem because a cocktail of drugs would be used in a maintenance regime, each countering the resistance of the other, as is done with HIV.
I’ll come to that in a moment. First to the question of using DAAs prophylactically. I asked this some months back here. You can read the doc’s response for yourself.
Yes you did bring up the topic Chester, and it is a good one. While the doc put forward options that he would prefer, I think that it’s good to have all options on the table and scrutinized to the depth that satisfies those still curious, if possible.
dt
but are we having moments of clarity now and seeing things as they really are?
Chejai – I think you are on to something here. I am certainly having this experience quite often these days. When I reflect on my life I am asking myself what was I doing there with that person? What was I thinking? How did I manage to blank out the crap that I was getting and stay in that situation? How did I persuade myself that certain people cared about me, and all the while their intentions were malicious and toxic to my well being? Or at the very least they were looking after number one and didn’t give a damn about me. And the big question – who have I got that has shown me they would actually care and would be there for me if I were to die of hepC? I guess when you dare to ask yourself that question it concentrates the mind and then the veil falls away from your eyes.
I think that these very personal questions go hand in hand with the political enlightenment that comes from the drugs rationing debacle. When you’ve been thrown to the wolves by the very agencies that are supposed to protect and care for you, when you’ve seen them upholding the status quo, the exhorbitant drug pricing, and protecting their own arses, can the world ever look quite the same again?
dt
best I can see the majority who fail don’t reach UD during
the 12 weeks they are usually 12 throughoutI don’t agree Sir. People do routinely reach UND without all the virus being gone. The PCR test just isn’t sensitive enough to detect what’s left. If we had a test that really could detect every virus then it would be much simpler. We’d know when we got the UND result that we could stop tx.
dt
Thurl
Two implications for responding to relapse may arise from Prof Gane’s comments.
1.
would an option for a relapser be to go on permanent, lifelong sofosbuvirIn theory I don’t see why not. It was tried with interferon for people most at risk to go on a permanent maintenance dose. That was not very successful, but with sofosbuvir it might be. The dosage and the safety of taking sofosbuvir for more than 24 weeks would have to be determined though.
It might be relevant to mention here in passing that most of the damage to the liver is not actually done by the virus itself. It is done by the immune system setting up inflammation in response to the virus, which eventually results in scarring of the liver. So the goal of a maintenance therapy should be to damp down the inflammation response. However if most of the virus is destroyed by the sofosbuvir then I imagine (but I’m not totally sure) that that amounts to the same thing. Anti-fibrotics is another interesting area for maintenance therapy. Doesn’t seem to have made very much progress so far but worth watching.
2.
But if the defective ledipasvir, while not effective enough to cure, is effective enough to give rise to resistance then the unfortunate patients will truly have had the worst of both worldsNobody likes to think about relapse but it happens. When it happens, resistance is left behind. Those are the facts. I think you might as well forget about the defective ledipasvir not giving rise to resistance. Even if it didn’t, the sofosbuvir still would. Retreatment is a topic about which not very much is known presently. Testing people to analyse their particular crop of RAVs may come into practice, so that they may be better targeted. Or maybe Gilead’s next drug, velpatasvir, will be strong enough to plough through all the types of RAVs regardless. I think that is their idea but we’ll have to wait and see.
I would most welcome any comments on either of the above questions. I am genuinely worried.
I think that everybody must worry about the tx not working, even if defective drugs are not involved. I know I do. There are no assurances for that particular worry. It used to be much worse when people failed interferon and nothing more could be done for them. Nowadays with the DAAs, for people who can access the available drugs and medical help, things have never looked brighter. We are just about at the event horizon in hepc drug development, which is the point at which if you fail then there will always be something else along in time to keep you going. I think that’s about as good as it gets.
Footnote:
Regarding drugs that are hard to make, you can be sure that Gilead has learned the lesson and will ensure that their future drugs are diabolically hard to make. So it’s a good job that the Chinese are diabolically clever.dt
However, I wasn’t always that way when first diagnosed, again like Ariel, I was in shock and very vulnerable.
And that’s the trouble. None of us are clued up when we’re first diagnosed. I was completely stunned for some time, outwardly normal but inside like a zombie. That is the exact time when something bad is most likely to happen, simply because you don’t understand what is going on and you have to trust the people appointed to your medical care to do their jobs. As we’ve all found out, that’s a lottery.
I wasn’t unduly harmed. That was mostly luck. On the downside, a lot less was known about 10 years ago, so a lot of suffering happened because nobody knew any better. But by 2012 they did know better. I think that any doctor who prescribes interferon nowadays without first doing genetic testing of the IL28B allele is negligent in their duty of care. Yet this is still going on all across the UK. I got my own genetic test done via the ’23andme’ website. Oh yeah, by 2012 I was clued up. If you are a CT or a TT then interferon is not suitable for you. That is grounds for demanding treatment with the DAAs.
Completely agree with your post LG. Mop up the virus first. Mop up the bastards next. Clean out the whole damn house.
dt1. Copy what you want to quote
2.Hit reply
3. Hit the quote bubble above (above the ‘blush’ emotive)
4.Paste your words in between start quote and end quoteLG you’re a star!
I think I got it too – here goes …..” Have woken up sneezing, but not a cold”
Now that you mention it LG – I have had the sneezes throughout, at any time of the day. It’s not a cold and I don’t get hay fever. Comes with intermittent watery runny nose. It’s not something I ever had except on this DAA tx.
So clock another side effect – sneezing.
dt
Gaj wrote:I have found that it is often best not to respond to strong emotional reactions but rather to consider them a side effect of the Tx and put them to one side until I can process them better, be that overnight or on a couple of occasions several days.
I think that is good advice Gaj.
dtGood for you Em. Really appreciate your sharing your journey here. Quite a few of us will be getting to the post EOT anxious wait stage in the near future.
dt
Ariel,
That is one strange story about your doc. I think it is way up there in the wierdness category. Not only could I not have made it up, but you actually had to live through it! Thank heavens you seem like the stable sort, enough to know that any mental problems around are not yours. Definitely stressful to the max though.
Yes, you can bring a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. I am now officially wary of doing any more than pointing at the fixhepc website and saying – have at it or not, that’s it from me. Heaven forbid I’d get involved and end up getting blamed for anything that went wrong. When it comes to an emotional issue like hepC, there’s nothing as queer as folk. Makes me appreciate even more how much Greg and the Doc have stuck their necks out with the generics, and what they might have had to put up with along the way.
LG – well spotted and I agree, heightened imagination and vulnerability, now official side effects.
dt
It’ll take more than juvederm to patch me up, but hey, you gotta start somewhere.
illy:' />Thank goodness you get it Mike & LG!
To be honest, the experience freaked me out. At the time, I had this bizarre flash of the ground shifting beneath me, while my erstwhile friend transformed in front of my eyes into the gestapo. To be sure, these meds encourage the imagination, and that was something I was never lacking in in the first place.
I am sure that my friend is afraid, and angry. Who wouldn’t be. For that reason I didn’t offer any response to what he said, however he doesn’t get to take out that emotional baggage on me. He will be avoided now for a while.
So maybe this is a cautionary tale for anybody on the generics and feeling vulnerable. If you are not prepared for your helping hand to blow up in your face, don’t offer it. Self-protection matters at all times, but especially on tx. Brainwashing / conditioned response is an effective tool – you bet! And it is more widespread than you think. Sadly, the brainwashers win this one, but only for today. We will get well and we will get strong again, and our SVRs will be all the testimony needed to put an end to their whole charade of lies.
dt
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