TOPIC:

Thus far Gilead have made $31.5 billion from a drug that Pharmasset spent $281 million developing.

I am all for free enterprise, but that is sickening...

kenbasman wrote: I am all for free enterprise, but that is sickening...

I'm confused. Could someone tell me whose ass are we meant to be kicking given this revelation?

Is it:

Pharmasset who invested 300 million and sold the rights for 11 billion (making approx. 3600% “profit” to speak in simplified terms), or

Gilead, who risked that 11 billion to develop and market the drug and have so far made 31.5 billion (approx. 200% “profit”) according to your figures?

Please let me know which speculator and wrecker I must focus on for today’s two minutes of hate!

I need to hate someone to enhance my belief in myself and my natural, pure, unhypocritical goodness (as long as it isn't the US government for legislating in favour of profiteering at the public's expense.)

Hi A.L.

Given that all three groups of people* that you nominate could at some stage in the process have done far more to assist the ~180 million worldwide that are infected with this virus but have chosen not to, I guess I'm going to be an equal opportunity hater.



* and it is people who make these decisions, not some nebulous "market forces" that they like to blame.

A U.S. perspective:
Say everything with Pharmasset and Gilead were the same, but the disease cured was different: breast cancer.

The people of the U.S. would empty Congress if the government allowed this outrageous profiteering at the expense of women's lives. There would be mass protests rivaling or surpassing those seen during the Vietnam and Civil Rights era. Gilead would become the face of evil and Congress would act or each and every member who did not would be replaced by one that would come Election Day.

So, whose ass needs kicked?

Mike

mgalbrai wrote: A U.S. perspective:
Say everything with Pharmasset and Gilead were the same, but the disease cured was different: breast cancer.

The people of the U.S. would empty Congress if the government allowed this outrageous profiteering at the expense of women's lives. There would be mass protests rivaling or surpassing those seen during the Vietnam and Civil Rights era. Gilead would become the face of evil and Congress would act or each and every member who did not would be replaced by one that would come Election Day.

So, whose ass needs kicked?

Mike

You may have a point there, as breast cancer victims tend to be seen as innocent and some of them die from the disease while they are still politically attractive, whereas on the other hand, most HCV sufferers don't die from the disease, tend to die later if they do, and in general, can put off being treated for quite some time with no ill effects. It also doesn't help that most of them caught the disease through the stupidity of youth or criminality or ignorance (not the poor sods who got it from doctors, though), which earns the condition a hell of a lot less sympathy from the general public. It's a bit like smoking in that way.

A further point is, as I have noted before, that certain drug treatments for other cancers and conditions run to prices at similar levels and higher to Gilead's gouging. They are not alone in this game at all, and stand out partly because they were successful in their bet on a disease that potentially has a large market.

But your perception has a grain of truth in it. HCV is a drug users' disease that is hard to market well, whereas breasts are easy to sell and very popular with their owners and close associates. People could very well respond more strongly if such treatment was similarly overpriced – although these days, the common person seems to be very content to act and vote against their own interests.

Who can say?

It seems we have entered the era of Hedge Fund Healthcare.
What would/could Gilead get for a cure or vaccine for malaria? Ebola? The "target" market is vast, but, on average, very poor.
It seems we have reached a moral "fork in the road": profit-driven healthcare vs health-driven healthcare.
I wonder if U turns are allowed?

The U.S. government appears to have adopted a "don't look, don't see" policy regarding the importation of generics. I am not aware of a single instance in which someone had their medications detained and destroyed. So, affordable treatment is available to anyone that can come up with $860.00. The sad fact is that many people don't know this or are conditioned to avoid buying medicine from abroad on the Internet for any reason.
Ignorance and paranoia can be cured with knowledge and understanding.
The TPP could change things dramatically.
M

Speaking of boobs
If I compare my hideous experience on peginf which popped me into hospital and cost me my body weight I was covered in weeping sores lost 2/3 of my hair lost my mind and more developed rare reactive lymphocytes with abnormal morpholpgy developed severe neutropenia thrombocytopenia etc etc was pulled off at 43 weeks with potassium low enough to risk my heart well compare that where I told my immediate family ie siblings and mother who completely ignored me were repulsed and frankly rude, with if say I had announced early stage breast cancer I truly believe the hot meals would have arrived the cleaning would have been done etc
But no. I even had a serious house fire on peginf I was so sick and brain dead. I received no help cleaning up or with the replacement of the two rooms that burned.
I had a child in final year at school and another in uni.
A sibling was an IVDU for several years many moons ago but has nothing and was impeccably rude and cut me off.
I am not IVDU but have the disease who knows how I had three risk factors a procedure in a third world country, acupuncture, and manicure and pedicure.
I haven't outted my story here like this before but the comments about boob cancer brought this out because it's so goddam true I lived it in reality
I had a boob scare years earlier and it was resolved by a small half centimetre scar unseen now but oh the compassion the flowers the cards!
I don't resent or take away the breast cancer journey in saying any of this trust me I have lost two very dear friends to that illness. But its a good point you make gentlemen.
I now do have benign masses in each breast since peginf which were not there before so I have them being watched. Mind you even mammograms are under suspicion here in Oz thanks to some European doc dissing them for "over diagnosis"
Can't win!
Well I have officially gone slightly off topic and this defs qualifies for a
I haven't had a for a looong time
I hope Gilead slip on my banana peel

Oh and my family members with the no hot meals and no care factor
Thank God for my divine two daughters one drove an hour and a half in happy tears just to hug and hold me when my UND came through from these miracle meds
Bless em the darlins

We have indeed entered the "Era of Hedge fund Healthcare".

Well put Mike!

This is exactly the reason that anyone infected needs to access meds now! The numbers here are staggering. Generic meds are now $1000. Once TPP is passed, Gilead will be able to sue DHL, FedEx, and US Customs for failing to uphold their patent. I will be shocked if it is not extremely difficult to get these meds shipped to USA once that agreement is passed.

see this in the BMJ today
www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/financial-cy...o-breakthrough-drugs

The fault is not really with Pharma.

This is an issue with our political system and the rules and regulations that facilitate such lesser good practices created by our notional representatives, who, to be blunt, no longer represent us.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.

- Abraham Lincoln

I fear that we have lost that idea and it has indeed largely perished.

Making matters worse Gilead (and pretty much every other corporation) is allowed by various laws, and carefully crafter legal fictions, to shift their profits to tax havens. I don't blame them. People follow incentives. The incentives are misaligned with the needs of the people, and we the people need to take responsibility for having allowed things to slide down a slippery slope.

It's a pretty neat trick - take a drug developed by someone else - to market. Ruthlessly extort governments for money using dying patients (voters) as the lever. Syphon that money through a tax haven to shareholders, who likewise avoid as much tax as possible. The problem with this is that the accretion of wealth into a small subsection of society arrests the circulation of money and in so doing slowly strangles the goose that lays the golden eggs.

While fixing our broken system seems a herculean task - where do you even start? I think it starts with recognition that there is a problem. Recognition is great but it must be followed by well considered concrete action.

千里之行，始於足下

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step

- Laozi

Hi Doctor James
I know. I work for a big bank after all. (Which bank? Not that one, but go one down)
So many injustices.

What makes it worse is those obscene profits only really benefit a small "gentlemen's" club (and the occasional token"lady".
Not about the shareholder or customer at all.

Meanwhile people are dying.

Kudos to you for being the change you want to see in the world.

Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth - Abraham Lincoln

But at least in the USA and much of the west it has perished.

There is one man, Dr, James Freeman, who is helping the afflicted. If I may be so bold to comment, I believe the world press is, for now assisting by the widespread coverage of your Redemption Trials and the results. So long as this does not result in a major impact to their earnings, big pharma will ignore it. You have political clout. If you were to be seriously attacked and threatened, there would be a political price to pay.

I know I will certainly be leading the charge against any politicians or companies trying to undermine you.

James-Freeman-facebook wrote: The fault is not really with Pharma.

This is an issue with our political system and the rules and regulations that facilitate such lesser good practices created by our notional representatives, who, to be blunt, no longer represent us.

Nailed it right there and I think the end result will be war.