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I don’t have time to address the qualifications paper right now.
However, about people tending to follow rules and accept status quo, I don’t think it’s so much conditioning as hard wired temperament. I made this point several weeks ago in a private comment to Emilio, but I’ll say it openly here because we have a very large potential problem coming.
The demographic we are seeing on this forum is not representative of the population at large. The people here doing most of the talking and taking action on their own behalf are mostly from the ~20% of the population known as “Intuitives,” either Idealists like Greg Jefferys or Rationals like Dr. Freeman. We tend to think for ourselves and outside the box, and are far more willing to challenge authority than are the ~80% of the population known as “Sensors.”
Sensors tend to need rules and an authority chain to guide their decisions, or simply let someone else decide for them. While Intuitives tend to derive their sense of right and wrong from some philosophical position, Sensors tend to see it based on custom and tradition and the orders sent down the authority chain. It’s not that they can’t understand, it’s that they’re not inclined to try.
To make matters worse, most of the people in bureaucratic positions tend to be Feeler Guardians, the most authority chain driven of them all. They are actually threatened by anyone who would dare to think outside the box or challenge their holy authority chain.
To get the Sensors to take action for themselves will be difficult and we’ll need to be able to show some serious credibility … we’ll need to appear as the voice of authority. And after that they’ll likely be needing their hands held the whole way.
I’m not bringing this up to be condescending to them, I’m bringing this up because I’m very concerned about what will happen when we start succeeding in reaching the larger numbers out there and they simply can’t figure the whole process out by reading this forum. There are not enough of us here to hold all their hands.
We’ve got to get their decision trees worked out such that they can easily follow them and we have to do it before the big numbers start hitting.
My understanding is that before Gilead bought out Pharmasset to get control of Sofosbuvir, Pharmasset and Bristol-Myers Squibb were cooperating on trials of the Sofosbuvir/Daclatasvir combo, and that Gilead ended the cooperation and instead began testing the Sofosbuvir/Ledipasvir combination. Ledipasvir was/is another Gilead product.
The application process takes time and money and BMS for some reason didn’t pursue pan-genotypic approval in the US. For genotype three however, the Sof/Led combo was clearly not performing well and so one or both of the entities sought and gained approval of the Sof/Dac combo for that genotype.
In Europe BMS went it alone and the Sof/Dac combo is approved for all genotypes there. Early on, the trials were smaller and so even though Sof/Dac was clearly out performing the Sof/Led combo, the small size of the trials left higher statistical uncertainty. At this point it’s become fairly clear to most of us that the Sof/Dac combo is superior and pan-genotypic.
Furthermore generic Dac is priced markedly lower than generic Led so you get a better combo for less money.
And to top it off, many of us hate Gilead enough at this point that we’ll choose the Sof/Dac combo just to undermine them. I personally had reached that point over four months ago and while I already had a prescription for Sof/Led from a Thai doctor my (partly political) preference for Dac was part of my decision making process that sent me to Australia to get my meds … I could get a prescription for my preferred combo there from Dr. Freeman.
Edit: I got the Thai prescription on the 19th of September.and as best I can remember, made the final decision to fly to Australia rather than Bangladesh or China on the 23rd.
Hi 2b, I had a short chat here in PM with Tim of MonkMed a few days ago.
MonkMed is looking for generic prescribing doctors in the US and wants to find at least one in every state. If your doctor is willing to be named please get her and Tim together to work out details.
Well …. I had the first of a three shot Hep A/B vaccine back in 2005 I think … then travel plans changed and I forgot about finishing the series.
My blood tests in August included A/B antibody tests and I showed no immunity so on my next visit on September 14 they gave me my first dose of a new three shot treatment. The doctor knew I was headed off to find my generics and that I wouldn’t be back for a while and he said it was fine.
But I was gone longer than planned. Started my generics on October 18, got my next blood tests on December 1 and saw the doctor on December 16 and was given my second shot in the series … doctor was unconcerned about the time lapse. Will be getting my EOT blood drawn on the 11th and see the doctor again on the 18th and will get the final A/B shot at that time.
I think they can detect lower that 15 … they just can’t quantify accurately below 15 … undetected means they didn’t find any at all … doesn’t mean there is zero, just that they can’t detect it.
That’s why you keep treating after you hit undetected, to pick off the stragglers.
And that’s why you have to test 12-24 weeks after eot … if there are too many for your immune system to finish off they’ll show back up before that time … if they don’t show back up by then you can assume they were all finished off.
Dr. James wrote a post here somewhere that gives probabilities … I’ll have to look in the expert’s corner and see if I can find it.
Did you get a certificate of analysis with the Daklinza?
I’m pretty sure that its only purpose with the generics is to prove they tested it and to show the customs official if its importation is questioned.
mgalbrai wrote:Maybe we can chip in and run a fixhepc.com ad on the witch’s page for a month.
I’m good for a $100.00https://www.delphiforums.com/advertising.htm
m
Hey Mike, they say great minds think alike. I was thinking exactly the same thing …. that “advertise here … $100” line got me to click … we can specifically target her forum with the ad.
Maybe the FixHepC.com logo on the left and on the right a scrolling list of pharma company logos and or pics of generic meds … maybe a gif image timed to half a second each of four Bangladesh pharma companies logos and 13 Indian companies logos followed by 1/4 second each of {~3 (sof, dac and a combo) x17 companies} 51 images of medicine packages.
I bet somebody here could make it for us.
Image size 728 x 90Ummm …. I got my meds from Kingswood and got the same copy of the certificate of analysis.
Call me crazy, but …. I’m willing to state with extremely high confidence that the quality of Kingswood’s photocopier/printer will have no impact on the effectiveness of Mesochem’s APIs.
Edit: To put GAJ’s number into a time perspective, to get the same quantity of alcohol as in one shot glass by taking one pill of Daclatasvir daily would require a treatment duration of 120 years plus 200 days.
Edit II: Oops, I made a mistake … Using the Gregorian calendar it would only be 120 years and 170.9 days.
Doctors generally follow protocol. The bureaucracy creates the protocol. The accountants are definitely a part of the bureaucracy that establishes the protocol.
Always.
More than anyone else, it’s the accountants that are pushing for the shorter treatments. With the price of generics that is much less necessary.
Read the trial results for yourself, or read what Dr. Freeman himself has said on the subject in this forum. There are quite a number of incredibly well informed people here … we’ve been reading for ourselves rather than cowering before authority.
I can tell you this for a fact: Four and three months ago respectively, neither my GI doctor in the US nor my GI doctor in Thailand were aware of the differences in treatment recommendations between the US establishment and the EU establishment. I told my specialists what was going on, not the other way around.
Edit: For clarification, this was in response to Seymour way up the thread.
No no, that’s not what I’m saying. If you can get the meds for these prices go for it, by all means.
I’m simply pointing out Gilead’s motivations. Gilead doesn’t give a damn whether I live or die. Gilead doesn’t care about any of us.
I am floored when I read people in various places singing Gilead’s praises …
* journalists talking up the compassionate access in the US seemingly unaware of just how few get it and that it’s just a publicity stunt.
* or when we read of how generous they’ve been with pricing in Egypt when we know it’s to keep control of that market to preserve the monopoly in the first world.
* or when they try to paint the generics contracts with Indian companies as compassionate when it was in fact to tie the hands of those companies in the face of the expected patent rejection there.Everything Gilead does is calculated and it seems most frequently it’s deceptive. I don’t want anyone here to be suckered into thinking Gilead is any less evil just because Australia got a better deal. Australia got a good deal because Gilead wants to stop the discussion of generics anywhere in the first world.
I want to make sure that the generics discussion keeps going. I want to make certain that whether or not a few people got a reasonable deal they understand that Gilead is still evil.
I want to make sure that their evil scheme to make this site quietly disappear does not work.
Actually to the best of my knowledge the Buyers Club has never shipped outside of Australia.
It’s my (possibly mistaken) understanding that Dr. Freeman negotiated with MonkMed.com specifically to handle international shipment of the REDEMPTION eTrials meds.I’m more concerned about the website/forum going silent with nobody here to help the new people showing up, and no activity to keep currently active members engaged.
And actually, yes there is still potential need for generics in Australia … we’ll see when the details come out. But I bet many people would pay for their own second 12 weeks of Darvoni to avoid using Riba. And also if the standard treatment calls for 8 weeks people would be fools to not buy another 4 weeks out of their own pocket. We’ll see.
Okay, let me get this straight … (Mike has already touched on this, but I’ve gotta push this hard!)
$1,000,000,000 / 62,500 patients = $16,000 / patient …. and free beyond the initial 62,500
AU$16,000 / 1.38 = US$11,594.20
This is about 1/5 of what the French are paying … with no cap for the French. It’s also about 1/5 the best deals a few of the insurance companies in the US have been able to negotiate (if I understand correctly.) Sorry to say this to my Aussie mates but …. this cannot be attributed to any higher negotiating skills of Australian politicians or bureaucrats.
First, while Gilead clearly has no soul and a distinct business logic tunnel vision, it doesn’t mean their statisticians are incompetent. I suspect that they’ve run the numbers and have good reason to believe that 62,500 is nearly all that will be seeking treatment in the next five years.
Even so, I see only two factors pushing Gilead to make this pricing decision.
1) Very clear, unambiguous legality of drug self-importation in Australia.
2) Dr. Freeman, Greg Jefferys and everybody here at FixHepC.com, (along with the news coverage) that is making treatment with generics start to hit the mainstream.Gilead is terrified that the word will get out to other parts of the world.
Gilead is attempting to buy your silence.We’ve seen it before. Gilead tried to sell the notion that the licensing of generics in India was about compassion; we all know it wasn’t. Gilead had a very clear idea that their patent would be rejected in India and was trying to preempt a flood of generics by contractually restricting sale to the poorest countries … no generosity or goodwill about it.
Same with Egypt, Brazil and elsewhere, the prices were offered to protect their most lucrative territories.
FixHepC.com has become the global center of generic treatment information. While there are several Brits and a few Americans and a spattering of others here, most of the current 646 registered forum members and of the maybe about 50 people actually talking a lot on this forum are Australians. Gilead hopes that with this price concession that this web site will die.
We have to make sure that does not happen.
No, no … the only shipper we lost (or MAY have lost) is Mesochem from China. There are far, far more options now.
Check the map at MonkMed.com (check the thread) to see where they ship Indian Meds … the US is clearly on the list.
Also, check the threads for Incepta, Beacon and Julphar for contact info for trusted shippers … I suspect you can find a way to get your meds from any one of those three to shipped to the US. -
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