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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4166

  • 2b
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If i'm reading this study right, its as many of us suspected, the REAL death toll from this scourge is way underreported, due to stats on death certificates. THANKS GILEAD, for hoarding the cure for $$$$ while hundreds of thousands died. Ratbags is too good a word for them.

"Even though death certificate data indicates that hepatitis C is the most common infectious cause of death, even more so than HIV, hepatitis B and tuberculosis combined, HCV-related mortality is still likely underestimated.",,,When taking this percentage and applying it to the general population, it can be estimated that 75,000 deaths in 2013 were attributable to HCV". ****

**** bear in mind, this is only for the US they are talking about, the extrapolation of that I can't even begin to wrap my head around

hepatitiscnewdrugs.blogspot.com/
GT 2b; since 80's, no prior tx, sofosbuvir and daclatasvir compounded from API's at Kingswood Pharmacy in Sydney, started tx nov 6,2015, undetected at 4 wks, UND at 8 weeks, UND at 1 week after EOT, UND at 4 weeks after EOT and UND at 8 weeks after EOT. " I feel GOOD!! I knew that I WOULD!"
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Last edit: by 2b. Reason: accuracy

worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4174

Reading stuff like this makes me friggin furious however, from a number of senate enquiries and information getting out about their unscrupulous tactics I have faith that their chickens are going to come home to roost and some well overdue justice is going to be dished up.
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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4176

www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/big-kar...20151202-gldg59.html

If you are quiet enough you can hear the whistle of share prices crashing to the ground.
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Last edit: by Tina-Hill-facebook. Reason: to add more in

worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4178

Well, I'm not a very opinionated person, but since you didn't ask for it, I will give you mine:
We are entering into a "new age" in medicine. An age when illness can be cured and prevented at the genetic level. How the governments respond as these new "wonder" drugs are introduced and priced now will set a precedent for things to come. Cures for ALS, Alzheimer's, and breast cancer to male pattern baldness and toenail fungus. They will come and researchers and companies need the monetary rewards for their work and risk. Several things need to happen:

1. The governments need to be proactive and set up pricing and access policies so everyone who needs the drugs can get them.
2. Researchers and companies should be rewarded adequately to encourage research. I really don't think anyone would have to spend a penny marketing a cure for breast cancer.
3. Companies and individuals who seek to profit excessively and use fraudulent reasons to justify those profits, should have their patents revoked.
4. #1 always trumps # 2.
5. The VA should get all meds for cost + s & h.

Our governments are in the pockets of the big pharma companies because the politician's pockets are full of their money.

Mike
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forums.delphiforums.com/generichcvtx

G 1a F-1
Started tx 10/23/15 (Meso sof & led) ALT 48 AST 28 v/l 1.6 mil
11/17/15 4 wk lab ALT 17 AST 16 <15
11/18/15 Started Harvoni
12/16/15 8 wk lab ALT: 15 AST: 13 V/l UND
1/14/16 Fin. Tx
7/07/16 UND SVR 24
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Last edit: by mgalbrai. Reason: addition

worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4179

I really like number 3 :)
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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4180

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Lol I love it..what a freakin good idea :)


Revenge is also moving swiftly in the direction of Shkreli. Fifteen months ago, he paid $US55 million for Turing Pharmaceuticals AG, whose primary asset was Daraprim. Now the price he paid has become questionable.

On Tuesday night, one of the largest medical service providers in the United States, Express Scripts, announced it was offering an alternative drug to Daraprim for just $US1.

Express Scripts is offering a drug from Imprimis Pharmaceuticals with the same qualities as Daraprim. Patients will now have an alternative: $750 for a pill of Daraprim, or $1 for a capsule from Imprimis.

Express Scripts is a low-cost supplier which negotiates with medical insurance companies and drug makers to provide medicines directly to consumers at low cost.

It was able to short-circuit the Shkreli price rocket by forming a partnership with Imprimis, a compounding pharmacy. Whereas big drug companies develop new drugs which are then patent protected, compounding pharmacies buy compounds approved by the US Food and Drug Administration and then formulate them to compete with patented drugs.



Compounders of the world, unite!
GT1a since 1988, diagnosed 1990
F0, tx naive
VL 262,000 ALT 40 AST 26 GGT 13 Fibroscan 04/12/15 - 2.9
Started Mesochem sof/dac 12 weeks 01/01/2016
11/02/2016 - 6 weeks UNDETECTED
AST 26
ALT 26
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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4181

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Thought the same thing, zhuk.

I had these dreams of mixing sofosbuvir and Mike's male pattern baldness medication and capsulating it. Obviously not a complete solution but a significant number of male hepers are bald so it would be a start. B)

On a more serious note it seemed too easy so I did a bit of checking and apparently the active ingredient in Daraprim is well out of patent. But not a very big market so not worth any competitors catering to until Turing pushed the price though the roof and restricted distribution which then made it worthwhile for ExpressScripts to smash the market with a $1 capsule to avoid paying Turing.
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4183

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And back more on topic, I found this article about understating of U.S. Hep C numbers.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hep.27978/abstract

I wonder how many similar type groups are excluded in other countries counts?

I know in Australia it is a reportable disease but how do we count - the total reports? Or do we use a different set of figures as we seem to be a bit vague about how many have it? I've seen anything from 200k to 270k quoted although the most common figure seems to be about 230k.

G
G3a since '78 - Dx '12 - F4 (2xHCC)
24wk Tx - PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
24wk Tx - Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
16wk Tx - 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
SVR7 - 22/06/17 UND
SRV12 - 27/07/17 UND
SVR24 - 26/10/17 UND
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

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Last edit: by Gaj.

worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4187

Hi,

There is an article by D. Lavanchy (Feb 2011, Journal of Clinical Microbiology and Infection, 17:107-115) which gives a breakdown by country of the numbers of people infected by Hep-C (Table 1). The total comes to 158 910 617. Or roughly 160 Million people. The figure for Australia is 227 331, or roughly 230 Million, which agrees with the figure often quoted elsewhere.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X14616487

For the impatient, this shows USA: 5 367 834; UK: 659 032; France: 814 281; Germany 620 168; Spain: 906 340; Italy: 1 923 136, Russia: 5 796 498; Japan: 3 058 008, for example)

Someone at hepcoalition.org used these figures to calculate, by country, the total numbers of people excluded by the Gilead "Voluntary Licence":

www.hepcoalition.org/IMG/pdf/countries_excluded_gilead_s_vl.pdf

The total comes to 73 087 095, or roughly 73 Million. If we set aside China (29 791 212, or roughly 30 Million), which has not accepted Gilead's patents and can therefore manufacture as much sofosbuvir as it likes, this leaves roughly 43 Million infected people who live in countries that are at the mercy of Gilead's pricing monopoly.

If we then take Gilead's price of $84 000 per treatment, we get a grand total of 84 000 x 43 000 000 = $ 3 612 000 000 000, or roughly $ 3.6 TRILLION as the cost to treat everyone in the "developed" world with Hep-C.

If we take a price of $ 1 000 as the baseline cost of a treatment under Gilead's voluntary licence, then the cost to treat everyone else outside of China (160 - 30 - 43 Million = 87 Million) comes to $ 87 000 000 000, or $87 BILLION.

According the recent analysis by US senators Wyden and Grassley (see full report, page 2, fixhepc.com/blog.html), Gilead have sold $26.6 Billion worth of sofosbuvir in the 21 months up to October 2015. Given that they paid "only" $ 11 Billion to Pharmasset to acquire the rights to the molecule, they have already recouped their costs and made an enormous return on their investment.

Also according to Wyden and Grassley, of the $ 26.6 Billion sales, $20.6 Billion was to US customers. Now, 20 600 000 000 / 84 000 = 245 000 treatments. And 245 000 / 5 367 834 = 0.045. In other words, only 4.5 % of Americans with the disease have been treated.


Of course these calculations are only estimates.

But let's carry on and do the same kind of estimate for outside of the US with the remaining $ 6 Billion. We know that the europeans pay less because its harder to screw a foreign government than an american insurance company. So let's guess a an average price for europe and the rest of the world of $ 60 000. This gives 6 000 000 000 / 60 000 = 1 000 000 or 1 Million people. Now 1 000 000 / 43 000 000 = 0.023. In other words, to date, only about 2.5% of people in the "developed" world have been treated.

So with all the big numbers out of they way, we can now see that Gilead are making a shit-load of money (which we all knew already by now), while still leaving the vast majority of people untreated.

Yours,

Absolutely speechless.
Diagnosed Jan 2015: GT3, A0+F0/F1. Fatigue + Brain-Fog.
Started Sof+Dac from fixHepC 10-Nov-2015. NO sides.
Pre-Tx: AST 82, ALT 133, Viral Load 1 900 000.
Week4: AST 47, ALT 58. VL < 15 (unquantifiable).
Week12 (EOT): AST 30, ALT 26, VL UND
Week16 (EOT+4): AST 32, ALT 28, GGT 24, VL UND
Week28 (EOT+16): AST 26, ALT 22, GGT 24, VL UND
Ever grateful to Dr James.

Relapsed somewhere after all that... Bummer!

Jan 2018: VL 63 000 (still GT3).
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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4188

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Great job number-crunching, Vororo. What was already obviously an obscenely small percentage of treated patients just becomes all the more stark under that spotlight.


What Gilead would no doubt call "untapped revenue potential" :evil:
GT1a since 1988, diagnosed 1990
F0, tx naive
VL 262,000 ALT 40 AST 26 GGT 13 Fibroscan 04/12/15 - 2.9
Started Mesochem sof/dac 12 weeks 01/01/2016
11/02/2016 - 6 weeks UNDETECTED
AST 26
ALT 26

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Last edit: by zhuk.

worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4191

Thanks Zhuk.

But I stopped just a bit too soon. Setting the absolutely criminal price aside for a brief moment, with just a bit more math we can say that at the present rate it will take about 22 years to treat all 5.3 Million Americans with the disease, and about 40 years to treat the rest of the "developed" world.

When will Gilead's patents run out? They're normally good for about 17 years, or maybe 20 with some creative thinking?

Not good news, for what is supposed to be a break-through treatment.
Diagnosed Jan 2015: GT3, A0+F0/F1. Fatigue + Brain-Fog.
Started Sof+Dac from fixHepC 10-Nov-2015. NO sides.
Pre-Tx: AST 82, ALT 133, Viral Load 1 900 000.
Week4: AST 47, ALT 58. VL < 15 (unquantifiable).
Week12 (EOT): AST 30, ALT 26, VL UND
Week16 (EOT+4): AST 32, ALT 28, GGT 24, VL UND
Week28 (EOT+16): AST 26, ALT 22, GGT 24, VL UND
Ever grateful to Dr James.

Relapsed somewhere after all that... Bummer!

Jan 2018: VL 63 000 (still GT3).

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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4192

You're basing your timescale on hepc elimination on static figures, surely, Vororo? In my country (the UK) the money that's been made available will barely maintain the figures taking into account year-on-year new infections. :ohmy:

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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4193

Oops, I made a mistake. I forgot that the percentage treatment rates are for 21 months of sales. So in fact, for the USA the rate of treatment is more like 2.6% per year, and for the rest of the world it is more like 1.4% per year.

Sorry for the mistake.

So... setting the absolutely criminal price aside for a brief moment, with the right math this time we can say that at the present rate it will take about 38 years to treat all 5.3 Million Americans with the disease, and about 71 years to treat the rest of the "developed" world.

As before, Gilead's patents could be good for from between about 17 to up to 20 years. And of course, the price will fall rapidly once the patents expire and generics will flood the market. But assuming my math is right this time, we are still looking at only about 17*1.4 = 24 % of americans and getting treated if Gilead continue to have things their way, with the rest having to wait until Gilead's patents expire.

And the calculation looks even worse for the rest of the "developed" world.
Diagnosed Jan 2015: GT3, A0+F0/F1. Fatigue + Brain-Fog.
Started Sof+Dac from fixHepC 10-Nov-2015. NO sides.
Pre-Tx: AST 82, ALT 133, Viral Load 1 900 000.
Week4: AST 47, ALT 58. VL < 15 (unquantifiable).
Week12 (EOT): AST 30, ALT 26, VL UND
Week16 (EOT+4): AST 32, ALT 28, GGT 24, VL UND
Week28 (EOT+16): AST 26, ALT 22, GGT 24, VL UND
Ever grateful to Dr James.

Relapsed somewhere after all that... Bummer!

Jan 2018: VL 63 000 (still GT3).

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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4194

zhuk wrote: .....What Gilead would no doubt call "untapped revenue potential" :evil:


And they DO call it things like that. Just how feral do obscene entities such as Gilead Sciences have to get before somebody with power and influence rains on their parade?
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worser and worser...should be a scandal 6 years 9 months ago #4195

Hi Alsdad,

Yeah, sure, based on static figures. I was really just trying to work out for myself what percentage of people who are currently identified with the disease are actually getting treated now, or who actually have any hope of getting treated in the next few years, taking into account current prices.

Obviously, there are still new infections every year, and people are dying every year, so the reality is probably worse than my quick estimates. So you're right, despite the best efforts of national health services, we are going nowhere fast.

Despite the fact that a perfectly good treatment now exists.
Diagnosed Jan 2015: GT3, A0+F0/F1. Fatigue + Brain-Fog.
Started Sof+Dac from fixHepC 10-Nov-2015. NO sides.
Pre-Tx: AST 82, ALT 133, Viral Load 1 900 000.
Week4: AST 47, ALT 58. VL < 15 (unquantifiable).
Week12 (EOT): AST 30, ALT 26, VL UND
Week16 (EOT+4): AST 32, ALT 28, GGT 24, VL UND
Week28 (EOT+16): AST 26, ALT 22, GGT 24, VL UND
Ever grateful to Dr James.

Relapsed somewhere after all that... Bummer!

Jan 2018: VL 63 000 (still GT3).
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alsdad

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