TOPIC:

Enjoy the debate.............

splitdog wrote: Corporations exist to make money for their shareholders.

Undoubtedly true, however they do so by using the structures of society and therefore have responsibilities to that society.

Gaj wrote: 'Intellectual Property' isn't about innovation or creativity. It is the second word in the phrase which clearly defines what it is about. Ownership.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. As an artist, Intellectual property has kept food on the family the table. No question.

Generally speaking, and I have a great deal of experience in this area, any original idea or expression which has a commercial value or application will be copied.

Intellectual property laws exist to protect originators from those who would profit from the fruits of honest and arduous or inspired labor without paying a fair amount to the originators for their contribution.

Also generally speaking, the royalties to the creator of an intellectual property are typically a fraction of a percent to 5% to 10% of sales for mass distribution of the intellectual property.

Typically IP royalties are negotiated between IP owners and the IP distributors through their attorneys.

So, taking $11 Billion patent cost as a starting point, theoretically 12.1 billion plus 10% ongoing royalties on bulk sales to the patent owner would be a fair amount based on precedent.

One could reasonably negotiate and add in promotional, insurance, and other expenses to the equation, but the formula generally remains the same.

Presumably (allegedly), when Indian manufacturers negotiate with Gilead, pricing for domestic Indian markets are predicated on some version of this formula.

I have to think if Gilead can make a reasonable profit in India at $850, an unrestricted, unregulated, and unquestioned price of US$ 84,000 in the US, and in other 'first world" countries is not only criminal, but deliberately genocidal.

fitz wrote: As an artist, Intellectual property has kept food on the family the table.

Yes, by giving you ownership but did it actually inspire the art that you created? Did IP provide Michael Sofia with the innovative insight to develop Sofosbuvir?

My point is that in each case I suspect both of you would have created regardless because that is what you each do. The IP only protects you for any monetary value that society bestows on your acts of creativity.

fitz wrote: I have to think if Gilead can make a reasonable profit in India at $850, an unrestricted, unregulated, and unquestioned price of US$ 84,000 in the US, and in other 'first world" countries is not only criminal, but deliberately genocidal.

Agreed with the second part of that statement but you need to remember that US$850 is a huge amount of money for most Indians, probably not totally out of proportion with what the US actually pays, something like US$50k.

Here is the link to Dr Andrew Hill's press conference about the cost of a 12 week Sof/Dac treatment being US$80.

www.healio.com/hepatology/hepatitis-c/ne...-low-as-80-in-the-us

Which goes to show how much profit there currently is in this field. On the other hand, I suspect that if these medications were priced in the "low hundreds" in developing nations and up to "several thousands" in so called first world countries we wouldn't be sitting here having this discussion, most of the world's population with HCV would be cured and the pharmaceutical companies and their shareholders would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Gaj wrote:

fitz wrote: As an artist, Intellectual property has kept food on the family the table.

Yes, by giving you ownership but did it actually inspire the art that you created? Did IP provide Michael Sofia with the innovative insight to develop Sofosbuvir?

My point is that in each case I suspect both of you would have created regardless because that is what you each do. The IP only protects you for any monetary value that society bestows on your acts of creativity.

Perhaps not. If he couldn't put food on the table the first time around, why would he keep at it? He more likely would try welding, or construction after that. Trust me, if you feel unappreciated the first time, you have genuine disincentive to no longer create LIKE YOU WERE.


Fitz wrote:
"I have to think if Gilead can make a reasonable profit in India at $850, an unrestricted, unregulated, and unquestioned price of US$ 84,000 in the US, and in other 'first world" countries is not only criminal, but deliberately genocidal."


As I have intoned before, I agree.


They could just as easily invest 11 Billion into hotels, or tires.

Edited.

Also remember, a scientist may be at something for ten years before they get a 'breakthrough'.

splitdog wrote: Imagine the 'costs' involved in developing a new drug. And then the testing.........

No need to imagine it, here is a balance sheet:

fixhepc.com/blog/item/25-the-real-develo...t-of-sofosbuvir.html

a neutral thouht on this topic:
I do not know what Obama in US did, I do not know what Clinton might have done, I do not know what Trump will do. But I know and believe this:
- Year 2007 - Sofosbuvir was invented
- Years 2013 and early 2014 - Sofosbuvir was approved as medicine for human use in uS and Europe.
- Year 2015 - generic Sofosbuvir from India came on the market. If I am not wrong, also in 2015 FixHepc started to help patients in need for getting the generic HCV medication.
- Year 2016 - thanks to dr. Freeman, dr. Hill and others it became known worldwide that generic HCV medication is same effective like branded drugs.
- Year 2017 and forward - looks more like years for politics to enable mass treatment of patients (either with branded and/or generic drugs). What politician will ever dare to claim that generic drugs are not efficient? Only those who want to commit political suicide perhaps.....

As long as the freedom to speak exists, the word about the affordable generic medication will spread. I would even dare to say that Big Pharma knows this truth too.

So yes, it is time for politics and also the time for the people to speak.

Cheers,
RHF

After all the F. Lee Bailey vocabulary & debating skills it all comes down to this: The only "fair" anyone will get in this world is the "fare" you'll pay a taxi cab driver when you leave his vehicle.

That's right. And I am grateful for this site, and the fact I had the necessary funds to do this on my own. Now. While the world debates all the rights and wrongs, I'm getting cured. Just like most things nowdays, you gotta do it yourself.

"That'll be $840, sir."
"Okay. Here. Thanks for the ride".

splitdog wrote: That's right. And I am grateful for this site, and the fact I had the necessary funds to do this on my own. Now. While the world debates all the rights and wrongs, I'm getting cured. Just like most things nowdays, you gotta do it yourself.

"That'll be $840, sir."
"Okay. Here. Thanks for the ride".

Awesome reply! You Split have the right attitude, you've got this. The main populous is always arguing "I got screwed", "I got taken"......while the winners silently say " line 'em up, I'm still going to win". Attitude and Enthusiasm is what winners are made of.
You Split are a winner, you've got this!

After all the F. Lee Bailey vocabulary & debating skills it all comes down to this: Thank you, Sven.

This post was edited because my attitude was just in a bad place.