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  • 27 July 2016 at 8:30 am #21458
    Avatar photore_roll
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @re_roll

    Been a vegetarian, not a vegan, for 40 years…..fish 2/3 times a week. Never have taken any
    supplements or vitamins until dx with HCV in 2007. Started to take milk thistle. Ran
    into chlorcyclizine a few years later. Can’t tell if they helped, but maybe they
    impeded/retarded the virus.

    Bottom line is…. a well balanced diet helps the body regardless what ails it. Didn’t need
    B12 with a balanced diet.

    IMO, people should change their dietary lifestyle regardless if they have HCV or not.
    H2O, sleep, little or no sugar, little or no alcohol, etc should be a life long endeavor….
    not just when you are on HCV meds.

    contracted Gen 1a in the 70’s, dx in 2007…ast 27 to 35…alt 43 to 96…vl 1.2 mil to 8.6 mil.
    biopsy F-2 (2012)..pre tx results 1/23/16 ast 32, alt 46, vl 3.1 mil
    tx started 2/11/16…. lab results 2/24/16 ast 18, alt 18, vl <15 IU/ml
    28 days later………….lab results 3/9/16 ast 21, alt 21, vl UND
    56 days later………….lab results 4/6/16 ast 20, alt 22, vl UND
    139 days later………..lab results 6/29/16 ast 28, alt 30, vl UND…EOT
    SVR24

    27 July 2016 at 8:46 am #21459
    Avatar photoPrice
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @price

    Fitz, Dr Freeman was thinking about conducting a study using it.

    P

    27 July 2016 at 8:48 am #21460
    Avatar photoMatt-Kenney-google
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @matt-kenney-google

    Thanks for clarifying RHF … I really did understand where you were coming from on your original post, just found that, the referenced materials you directed us to only served to make me eager to learn even more. Gregs blog was very informative. Thank you for sharing it.
    I agree, caution, when entertaining any form of self treatment is a good thing and I totally respect you for pointing it out for not only for yourself, but for me as well. :+1:

    Matt
    P.S. See what I mean RHF! (Note the above post by Price) (happened while I was writing) Apparently I’m not alone in my eagerness to learn more. :lol:

    GT1a; Got it some time in the 70’s; Diagnosed @1976
    Tx naive
    METAVIR: A2-F2
    SOT May 18, 2016: CMP: AST 162 ALT 241 VL 13000000
    3 weeks after SOT: AST 27 ALT 31 VL 138
    Reached EOT Aug. 10, 2016 / Received svr4 results Sept. 20, 2016: AST 22 ALT 24
    Hep C RNA NOT DETECTED”

    27 July 2016 at 8:59 am #21461
    Avatar photoPrice
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @price
    Gaj wrote:

    *and be aware that the therapeutic dosage may differ from what is appropriate for use as an antihistamine.

    Dr F was thinking about using it so I asked Dr Dieterich if perhaps adding chlorcyclizine to DAAs could maybe increase success rate and would a dose of 75 mg at bedtime be enough in his opinion and he said….

    “While there is good invitro data there does not yet seem to be any human data for this so there is no dosage information or drug interaction data. So an abundance of caution would lead me to not recommend it yet. Good luck with it!”

    So I asked him if he thought a dose of 75mg would be enough and he said yes and to let him know how it went.

    P.

    27 July 2016 at 9:03 am #21462
    Avatar photoMatt-Kenney-google
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @matt-kenney-google

    :lol: So much for caution eh Price?? That was hilarious. I love the way you steered the conversation and the Doctors final word. Ha! Can I get a referral ;) :+1:

    Matt

    GT1a; Got it some time in the 70’s; Diagnosed @1976
    Tx naive
    METAVIR: A2-F2
    SOT May 18, 2016: CMP: AST 162 ALT 241 VL 13000000
    3 weeks after SOT: AST 27 ALT 31 VL 138
    Reached EOT Aug. 10, 2016 / Received svr4 results Sept. 20, 2016: AST 22 ALT 24
    Hep C RNA NOT DETECTED”

    27 July 2016 at 5:56 pm #21486
    Avatar photofitz
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @fitz

    Theoretically, it seems to me if 75mg over 24 hours is the therapeutic dose. Dosing 25mg every 8 hours, would keep the dosage at therapeutic levels, and avoid peaks and troughs in serum levels which might allow the virus some wiggle room during the trough phase.

    Also, if the medication acts to keep virus from entering cells to replicate (as it has been proven to do in studies of human liver cells transplanted into mice, and also human liver cells in vitro), its role is prophylactic, sort of locking the little buggers down until they die on their own, and/or allowing the DAAs catch them where they live and nuke the shit out of them.

    I suppose an analogy would be barring all the entrances and exits to a structure full of HCV, nuking it with DAAs, and then quarantining the survivors where they reside, and laying siege until any survivors simply die off.

    If HCV lives outside the body for ~60 days (presumably because that is as long as it can survive without replicating), then it seems that if it is unable to replicate within the body, that ~60 days would be the minimum period to treat with chlorcyclizine, and that twice that would be prudent.

    All of this of course is the theory of a layman patient with HCV – so really just thinking out loud, and not in any way intended to be anything beyond pure conjecture.

    27 July 2016 at 7:23 pm #21489
    Avatar photoLondonGirl
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @londongirl

    Well, I am on other antihistamines at the moment, so where can you get these ones? !

    GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
    Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
    Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
    Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
    DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 ‘In the slow lane’
    June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
    Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
    Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
    Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
    Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
    Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
    Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
    Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
    Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC

    27 July 2016 at 8:48 pm #21490
    Avatar photofitz
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @fitz

    I ordered a couple of boxes from Amazon yesterday (runny nose). The manufacturer has a website. I’ll send you that link by PM. :)

    27 July 2016 at 9:41 pm #21491
    Avatar photoMeg
    • Topics: 3
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    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @meg

    I know it is a lay man conjecture but it makes sense. I am just not clear how the dosing is . If it is drowsing than a different one should be taken during the day. I actually like the idea of taking them at night but not being dizzy during the day. In any case I think your find is brilliant. :ohmy:

    Blood transfusion in 1992 – Diagnosed in 2007
    Tx naive -G1b – F1
    VL 2.270.000
    ALT 40
    Start tx June 4th/2016 with DAAs – Sof/Led from India
    Bloods on two weeks of tx (June 18th)
    AST 17 – ALT 10 – GGT 19
    Virus UND
    Bloods on six weeks of tx (July 16th)
    AST 17 – ALT 8 – GGT 12
    Virus UND
    EOT on August 8th (did 9 weeks and 3 days)

    SVR 4 Virus UND (September 7th)
    AST 13 – ALT 5

    SVR 14 Virus UND (November 12th)

    27 July 2016 at 11:44 pm #21498
    Avatar photoLondonGirl
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @londongirl

    Amusingly, I’m on the UK version already <img style=illy:' /> me :lol:
    I was recommended these while on treatment by a clever Dr. for my sinusitis .
    Shows how much info I’ve taken in of late has affected my poor pea – sized brain – Brain overload!
    Laughing away at myself as I type :P

    GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
    Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
    Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
    Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
    DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 ‘In the slow lane’
    June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
    Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
    Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
    Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
    Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
    Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
    Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
    Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
    Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC

    28 July 2016 at 12:12 am #21500
    Avatar photofitz
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @fitz

    Hah! You are our surprise test subject, LG. Has the top of your head blown off in a spectacular shower of sparks yet, or are the antihistamines doing their job well enough?

    BTW the brand name here in the US is AHIST. What is the UK brand for Chlorcyclizine?

    28 July 2016 at 5:16 am #21512
    Avatar photoLondonGirl
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @londongirl

    All in one piece so far fitz and they stop the itchy finger :)
    They’re called Cetirizine Hydrochloride and available at the first pharmacy I went to.
    For some reason, they sold them in packs of 7 tabs only, but extremely cheap.
    I hadn’t heard of them until recently.

    EDIT : Sorry folks, Just read Gaj’s post below, I did a search on the original name and the above mentioned ones came up for the UK, but it seems the above is incorrect – Shame and sorry for the mis info.

    GT1a Dec14 F2/8.7 VL 900000-2.5M
    Jan16 Hepcivir-L MonkMed/Redemption
    Baseline: VL 913575 Alt 76 Platelets low
    Wk2 VL1157 Alt 23
    DET Wk 8 VL 32 Alt19 ‘In the slow lane’
    June16 Fibro 5.7 F0/1 LIF 1.5
    Wk 11 VL<12 Alt 13 Det/Unq
    Extending tx 12 wks Mylan Sofo/Dac MonkMed
    Wk 14 VL <12 Det/Unq
    Wk 16 VL UNDETECTED
    Wk 22 + 4 Wks Sunprevir FixHepC
    Wk 24 UNDETECTED Alt 13
    Wk 12 post tx SVR12 Wk 26 SVR24
    Thank-you Tim, Dr Debasis @ MonkMed & Dr Freeman @ Fix HepC

    28 July 2016 at 5:17 pm #21549
    Avatar photofitz
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @fitz

    Meg – My understanding is that the therapeutic dose is 75mg, per 24 hour period. The recommended dosage per the label distributes that 75mg dose in three portions – one 25mg dose every 8 hours.

    For me a huge plus is that safety is already well established with the putative therapeutic dose of 75mg for a 24 hour period for Hep C, because it is the same 75mg per 24 hour dose for a runny nose, or an itchy rash, and the medication has been in use for the latter purposes for ~ 60 years.

    Either way, because none of the studies for efficacy of Chlorcyclizine against Hep C have been conducted in human subjects, we don’t really know if the medication will work as well in people as it does in human liver cells transplanted into mice, or human liver cells tested outside of the body ‘in vitro’.

    But, if it turns out to work as well in our bodies as it does ‘in vitro’ and in human liver cells in mice (and that is a big ‘IF’;)], we potentially have another fantastic, and affordable weapon in our arsenal against this horrible disease!

    That would be brilliant!

    28 July 2016 at 6:31 pm #21553
    Avatar photoMatt-Kenney-google
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @matt-kenney-google

    Hey fitz,
    Great find on Amazon! I’ll be looking for the brand you posted. Thanks for sharing it and your thoughts. I am confident that the product is safe to take and I like the breakdown of dosage idea. That was my thinking too :idea: Can’t hurt to try, right?

    Your fellow “lay person ”

    Matt

    GT1a; Got it some time in the 70’s; Diagnosed @1976
    Tx naive
    METAVIR: A2-F2
    SOT May 18, 2016: CMP: AST 162 ALT 241 VL 13000000
    3 weeks after SOT: AST 27 ALT 31 VL 138
    Reached EOT Aug. 10, 2016 / Received svr4 results Sept. 20, 2016: AST 22 ALT 24
    Hep C RNA NOT DETECTED”

    28 July 2016 at 6:37 pm #21554
    avatar876.jpegGaj
    • Guardian Angel
    • ★★★★★
    @gaj

    Hi all,

    Please note that Cetirizine Hydrochloride and Chlorcyclizine are not the same drug even though they are both antihistamines. They may be reasonably interchangeable for sinusitis but probably not for HCV treatment.

    G3a since ’78 – Dx ’12 – F4 (2xHCC)
    24wk Tx – PEG/Riba/Dac 2013 relapsed
    24wk Tx – Generic Sof/Dac/Riba 2015/16 relapsed
    16wk Tx – 12/01/17 -> 03/05/17 NS3/NS5a + Generic Sof
    SVR7 – 22/06/17 UND
    SRV12 – 27/07/17 UND
    SVR24 – 26/10/17 UND
    :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

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